White British Pupils lagging behind ethnic minority

[Guest sibon]

Hmm. My mathematical definition of average must be different to what the education system's interpretation is. No wonder there are always accusations of grade inflation every year.

 

Just out of interest, how can 72.6% be above average? Especially if grade boundaries are determined by using a normal distribution.

 

If you can't understand how an average or distribution is calculated, you need to be better at your job.

 

You are assuming that grade C is "average".

 

Maybe you should rest now. Do a bit of research in the morning and then get back to me about how well I do my job.

 

Good luck with that.

[ez8004 10]

You are assuming that grade C is "average".

 

Maybe you should rest now. Do a bit of research in the morning and then get back to me about how well I do my job.

 

Good luck with that.

 

So you are telling me that every university grading system in the country is wrong in pitching the grade C at 50%. What kind of a trash teacher are you in telling your students otherwise.

 

Good job, not. You give me the opinion that teachers are overpaid.

[Guest sibon]

So you are telling me that every university grading system in the country is wrong in pitching the grade C at 50%. What kind of a trash teacher are you in telling your students otherwise.

 

Good job, not. You give me the opinion that teachers are overpaid.

 

I can only assume that Maths is your second language.

Here are last years figures.

 

You really should try to be a little less rude too. It does you no favours.

[Quik 10]

So you are telling me that every university grading system in the country is wrong in pitching the grade C at 50%. What kind of a trash teacher are you in telling your students otherwise.

 

Good job, not. You give me the opinion that teachers are overpaid.

 

http://www.bstubbs.co.uk/gcse.htm

 

Thats the raw data.

[Bob Arctor 11]

I'll just jump in at this point, if that is ok. I've read the rest of the thread and there is quite a lot of ill informed nonsense being written.

 

I've taught in Sheffield schools for the last 30 years, so I'd like to suggest that I have a perspective that is worthy of consideration. In that time, I've taught thousands of students and observed hundreds of lessons for one reason or another.

 

I've never worked in a school where people routinely paid excessive attention to those with language, or cultural differences. Generally speaking, a teacher gets judged on the progress of his/her entire class(es). Sorry about the clumsy sentence, but it is important for you to realise that teaching is about teaching everybody.

 

I think that it is probably the case that students with language problems do get a little extra attention. I certainly do that myself. That attention doesn't amount to exclusivity though, and it is likely that students with reading/writing problems or a special talent for a subject receive equal extra attention. Good teachers teach everyone though.

 

It is a lazy generalisation to claim that foreign students rob UK students of teacher time. The funding formula for schools allocates extra resources to those schools who need extra staff for such reasons.

 

I've stopped short of using the R word in this post, mostly because I've replied to Ash, who I know to be a decent bloke. Some others seem to be using this issue to peddle a more sinister agenda.

 

Helpful post, that. It's also worth noting that Ofsted mark a school down if not enough is being done to challenge and develop the more able kids, so a school that was over-focusing on kids with language difficulties would get called out.

 

---------- Post added 06-04-2016 at 07:00 ----------

 

So you are telling me that every university grading system in the country is wrong in pitching the grade C at 50%. What kind of a trash teacher are you in telling your students otherwise.

 

Good job, not. You give me the opinion that teachers are overpaid.

 

Manners not on the curriculum at that fee-paying school you went to? Or maths?

[Annie Bynnol 614]

"White British Pupils lagging behind ethnic minority" is a headline.

 

It does not even begin to analyse the statistics and of course it appears to be an open invite to blame.

 

Underachievement of groups within the British education system can and has been blamed on many things in the past and still are.

 

For many years the focus was bridging the gap between female and male attitude, results and subject choice. Positive steps have reversed the situation.

Do "white boys'" parents turn around and see them being treated unfairly compared with "white girls"- no.

 

Currently schools are being measured on many things. Perhaps the present headline grabber which can be summed up by:

 

20% of variance in pupil’s achievement is affected by school quality.

80% of variance in pupil’s achievement is down to pupil-level effects which include family influence, the neighbourhood and peer pressure.

(Rasbash et al 2010 summary).

 

In 2011 34% of pupils on free school meals (FSM) achieved 5 GCSE at level C or above good compared to 62%.(DfE 2012).

 

FSM statistics for wards and catchments are freely available on OFSTED and Council sites.

FSM statistics is rather crude way of describing a pupils' family background. and it but it is used by OFSTED to and schools do 'fail' an inspection if the gap is too great or targets are missed.

 

Getting extra help:

Some schools get more money than others because of their geographic location, some schools attract more volunteers, more money, more input from professional bodies, employers and local businesses.

All schools get funding for what was once called Special Needs. This has been greatly reduced and much more difficult to get.

Funding for newly arrived children with no English is a separate fund and lasts for months not years and is specifically focused on language.

 

Pupil Premium is a temporary scheme whereby each child registered as eligible for free school meals at any point in the last 6 years will get:

•£1,320 for pupils in reception year to year 6

•£935 for pupils in year 7 to year 11.

This is an enormous sum in some Sheffield schools and the pressure on these school s is immense.

[*_ash_* 88]

Please do.

 

Back again as I said

 

Actually there isn't much more to add. I made some points, mainly about parents here (perhaps lower end of the intelligence spectrum) being complacent with the education system doing the job for them, and that's still what I think. And I made another point about people (in particular from places with poor education standards) will be more likely be 'encouraging' of their children's study. Which I also think is true.

 

The question you quoted, you have answered with this bit:

 

I think that it is probably the case that students with language problems do get a little extra attention. I certainly do that myself. That attention doesn't amount to exclusivity though, and it is likely that students with reading/writing problems or a special talent for a subject receive equal extra attention.

 

I would guess that class sizes probably feature in this mixture too.

[Mister M 1,632]

I'll just jump in at this point, if that is ok. I've read the rest of the thread and there is quite a lot of ill informed nonsense being written.

 

I've taught in Sheffield schools for the last 30 years, so I'd like to suggest that I have a perspective that is worthy of consideration. In that time, I've taught thousands of students and observed hundreds of lessons for one reason or another.

 

I've never worked in a school where people routinely paid excessive attention to those with language, or cultural differences. Generally speaking, a teacher gets judged on the progress of his/her entire class(es). Sorry about the clumsy sentence, but it is important for you to realise that teaching is about teaching everybody.

 

I think that it is probably the case that students with language problems do get a little extra attention. I certainly do that myself. That attention doesn't amount to exclusivity though, and it is likely that students with reading/writing problems or a special talent for a subject receive equal extra attention. Good teachers teach everyone though.

 

It is a lazy generalisation to claim that foreign students rob UK students of teacher time. The funding formula for schools allocates extra resources to those schools who need extra staff for such reasons.

 

I've stopped short of using the R word in this post, mostly because I've replied to Ash, who I know to be a decent bloke. Some others seem to be using this issue to peddle a more sinister agenda.

 

I agree. And it's a shame that the debate has been hijacked by those who seek to use the disadvantage of some white children, who for whatever reason, are 'lagging behind'. I wonder whether there would be the same 'sympathy' if the thread were entitled 'white working class children lag behind white middle class children'. Whether the complaint about parents with 'sharp elbows', and those who know how to manage the system to their advantage would be made as a reason for the relative poor performance of some children....

[*_ash_* 88]

And it's a shame that the debate has been hijacked by those who seek to use the disadvantage of some white children

 

... just to be clear, do you include me in that?

 

 

 

 

(as this quotes Sibon's post to me)

[Mister M 1,632]

... just to be clear, do you include me in that?

 

 

 

 

(as this quotes Sibon's post to me)

 

No I wasn't including you in that, as you didn't say the relative poor performance of some children was because more attention was being given to children from ethnic minorities.

[*_ash_* 88]

No I wasn't including you in that, as you didn't say the relative poor performance of some children was because more attention was being given to children from ethnic minorities.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. I wasn't sure.

[Guest sibon]

Back again as I said

 

Actually there isn't much more to add. I made some points, mainly about parents here (perhaps lower end of the intelligence spectrum) being complacent with the education system doing the job for them, and that's still what I think. And I made another point about people (in particular from places with poor education standards) will be more likely be 'encouraging' of their children's study. Which I also think is true.

 

 

In my experience, parental support is vital. Parent + Teacher usually manages to push the kid in the right direction.

 

Parent + child has the opposite effect.

 

 

 

 

I would guess that class sizes probably feature in this mixture too.

 

Absolutely.

 

There is a reason why independent schools have smaller class sizes than state schools.