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White British Pupils lagging behind ethnic minority

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Well what I do know is that many people who come to Britain from countries where education is valued instil that value in their children. Nothing wrong with that. I just wished more British parents were as keen for their children, and saw school as a bit more than a convenient babysitter for their kids while they go out to work

I just wonder why some children and their parents don't value learning....

 

I think in real life terms Mister, this is close to apples and oranges...

 

Well what I do know is that many people who come to Britain from countries where education is valued instil that value in their children. Nothing wrong with that. I just wished more British parents were as keen for their children, and saw school as a bit more than a convenient babysitter for their kids while they go out to work

I just wonder why some children and their parents don't value learning....

 

Would you agree [obviously!], that most people want the best for their own children? (or at least better than they themselves have done?)

 

You said here 'from countries where education is valued instil that value in their children' - well of course... if they are coming from countries where education is minimal / poor / or even non-existent. It's valued by these parents because people coming here want the children they bring with them, or have here to have far better than they had... and when they are in a foreign country often can't communicate well, schooling WILL almost certainly be instilled by the parents (apart from the crap ones, just like we have here already).

 

Nothing wrong with that at all, as you say.

 

Well what I do know is that many people who come to Britain from countries where education is valued instil that value in their children. Nothing wrong with that. I just wished more British parents were as keen for their children, and saw school as a bit more than a convenient babysitter for their kids while they go out to work

I just wonder why some children and their parents don't value learning....

 

The posts I've been reading that point to 'more time being spent with these' can't be ignored.

 

British people have had education levels beyond most places for decades. The complacency that this brings is the huge. British people especially, in crap areas expect the school to educate them. They don't have to do anything. And obviously in many cases that I see, they don't!

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Ironically, you embody the anti-learning sentiment being discussed, since you've dealt solely with supposition and generalising, regardless of whether it's true or not. People who are pro-education and learning tend to want a bit more than that to go on.

 

......And here we have our problem

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I think in real life terms Mister, this is close to apples and oranges...

 

 

 

Would you agree [obviously!], that most people want the best for their own children? (or at least better than they themselves have done?)

 

You said here 'from countries where education is valued instil that value in their children' - well of course... if they are coming from countries where education is minimal / poor / or even non-existent. It's valued by these parents because people coming here want the children they bring with them, or have here to have far better than they had... and when they are in a foreign country often can't communicate well, schooling WILL almost certainly be instilled by the parents (apart from the crap ones, just like we have here already).

 

Nothing wrong with that at all, as you say.

 

 

 

The posts I've been reading that point to 'more time being spent with these' can't be ignored.

 

British people have had education levels beyond most places for decades. The complacency that this brings is the huge. British people especially, in crap areas expect the school to educate them. They don't have to do anything. And obviously in many cases that I see, they don't!

 

Yes I agree that the vast majority want the best for their children, and I do think that many Britons take for granted the advantages that they have over much poorer countries. I do, all the time. Like just about everyone else born in this country does.

Perhaps it's only when things are threatened, like local libraries, do many people stop to question their advantages. I guess that's just human nature, sadly.

With regards to your last point I agree that education shouldn't be a passive process, but pupils need to engage with what they're being taught. As I've admitted, I didn't do the best I could at school; and, if I look back, there were a couple of factors that prevented me doing the best I could.

However that entitlement to an education, runs right throughout the class system - not just those in crap areas.

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Yes I agree that the vast majority want the best for their children, and I do think that many Britons take for granted the advantages that they have over much poorer countries. I do, all the time. Like just about everyone else born in this country does.

 

Underlined: There is a difference between you and the majority though. You are quite obviously a reasonable man. Most people aren't. The difference is 'appreciation' of what you have and what is available. Appreciation of something is soon lost when it's become the norm., IMO.

 

Perhaps it's only when things are threatened, like local libraries, do many people stop to question their advantages. I guess that's just human nature, sadly.

 

Yes, I could sum up the majority of people if I say 'One doesn't appreciate things until it is in one's own backyard' :hihi:

 

With regards to your last point I agree that education shouldn't be a passive process, but pupils need to engage with what they're being taught. As I've admitted, I didn't do the best I could at school; and, if I look back, there were a couple of factors that prevented me doing the best I could.

However that entitlement to an education, runs right throughout the class system - not just those in crap areas.

 

But what if a large amount of teacher time is spent on people who need more help? (in mainstream schools)

 

(circles, we'll get there... :hihi:)

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Guest sibon

 

 

But what if a large amount of teacher time is spent on people who need more help? (in mainstream schools)

 

(circles, we'll get there... :hihi:)

 

I'll just jump in at this point, if that is ok. I've read the rest of the thread and there is quite a lot of ill informed nonsense being written.

 

I've taught in Sheffield schools for the last 30 years, so I'd like to suggest that I have a perspective that is worthy of consideration. In that time, I've taught thousands of students and observed hundreds of lessons for one reason or another.

 

I've never worked in a school where people routinely paid excessive attention to those with language, or cultural differences. Generally speaking, a teacher gets judged on the progress of his/her entire class(es). Sorry about the clumsy sentence, but it is important for you to realise that teaching is about teaching everybody.

 

I think that it is probably the case that students with language problems do get a little extra attention. I certainly do that myself. That attention doesn't amount to exclusivity though, and it is likely that students with reading/writing problems or a special talent for a subject receive equal extra attention. Good teachers teach everyone though.

 

It is a lazy generalisation to claim that foreign students rob UK students of teacher time. The funding formula for schools allocates extra resources to those schools who need extra staff for such reasons.

 

I've stopped short of using the R word in this post, mostly because I've replied to Ash, who I know to be a decent bloke. Some others seem to be using this issue to peddle a more sinister agenda.

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maybe they should start fining parents of the kids who aren't making the grade.

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maybe they should start fining parents of the kids who aren't making the grade.

 

By definition only 50% can score a grade C or better so the other 50% will always get fined. Wait, that is genius, someone implement this :hihi:

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Guest sibon
By definition only 50% can score a grade C or better so the other 50% will always get fined. Wait, that is genius, someone implement this :hihi:

 

72.6% of UK students achieved A*-C in English last year. Which kind of disproves your point.

 

Do you actually know anything about anything? Or, are you on a one man mission to fill SF with nonsense?

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If I may respond tomorrow Sibon :)

 

 

edit: I only popped in, and couldn't resist responding.

 

In short though: (:hihi:)

 

I'll just jump in at this point, if that is ok. I've read the rest of the thread and there is quite a lot of ill informed nonsense being written.

 

I only skim read it, I'll read it all tomorrow. I hope you haven't quoted me in this nonsense bit!

 

I've taught in Sheffield schools for the last 30 years, so I'd like to suggest that I have a perspective that is worthy of consideration. In that time, I've taught thousands of students and observed hundreds of lessons for one reason or another.

 

of course. I'd never dodge a post from anyone, let alone the intelligent posters in here.

 

I will add that since my experiences have only been in live contact with hundreds / thousands of situations, out of the classroom (i.e. parents + children not in school), I can only argue based on those.

 

 

It is a lazy generalisation to claim that foreign students rob UK students of teacher time.

 

You won't get any argument from me there, especially written like that. That looks like a tabloid headline!

That isn't my position.

 

I've stopped short of using the R word in this post, mostly because I've replied to Ash, who I know to be a decent bloke. Some others seem to be using this issue to peddle a more sinister agenda.

 

 

Why? thank you! :hihi:

 

I'll post tomorrow.

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Guest sibon

 

 

Why? thank you! :hihi:

 

I'll post tomorrow.

 

Please do.

 

We should play cricket again sometime:)

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Please do.

 

We should play cricket again sometime:)

 

That was a good day and highly unusual. I remember it well :)

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72.6% of UK students achieved A*-C in English last year. Which kind of disproves your point.

 

Do you actually know anything about anything? Or, are you on a one man mission to fill SF with nonsense?

 

Hmm. My mathematical definition of average must be different to what the education system's interpretation is. No wonder there are always accusations of grade inflation every year.

 

Just out of interest, how can 72.6% be above average? Especially if grade boundaries are determined by using a normal distribution.

 

If you can't understand how an average or distribution is calculated, you need to be better at your job.

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