Job Centre Self Immolations.

[chem1st]

How many people have burned themselves to death at job centres?

 

How many people have burned themselves to death because of them?

 

Would JC+ related self immolations in the UK be 'covered up'?

 

Can a true figure be found?

 

We live in uncertain times, and although we have great wealth and ability to look after and feed all, we do not. Wealth has been multiplying whilst our basic protections afforded to citizens are destroyed, leaving many worse off than prisoners.

 

The civilised system we had in place for many decades is over. As a society we are barbaric, worse than ISIS even, whilst they burn alive their enemies who seek to kill them, we cause our fellow citizens to burn themselves.

 

We punish people for unemployment and reward them for murder.

 

If you want to talk of perverse incentives - then there is one to ponder.

 

If you miss a job centre appointment a sanction beckons.

If you decapitate job centre staff you get free housing, food and hospital treatment. We our civilised when it comes to criminals, but barbaric when dealing with the unemployed.

 

We have Nazis like IDS in power in the UK and the likes of him are inflicting great damage upon society. Causing many British people to commit suicide, some of them by self immolation.

 

The ultimate protest is the self immolation, and it has long been used as a form of political protest.

 

In Birmingham a men self immolated outside the JC+ but was put out and stopped from burning to death.

 

The case did not receive much attention and the man's name was not released.

 

A man has set himself on fire outside a Birmingham jobcentre after what reports suggest was an argument over benefit payments.

 

The 48-year-old unnamed man is understood to have doused himself in flammable liquid and tied himself to railings after a dispute inside the Jobcentre Plus in the Selly Oak area on Thursday.

 

Police arrived at the scene and extinguished the fire after the jobcentre was evacuated.

 

The man was later taken to hospital with burns to his legs.

 

A source with links to staff at the centre told the Guardian the man had been recognised by the staff as vulnerable with outstanding health issues but had recently been found fit to work precipitating a move from one benefit to another. This had caused payment delays.

 

An unnamed witness who spoke to the Birmingham Mail said: "The guy came into the jobcentre with petrol and made threats, so they evacuated the whole building. I think it was something to do with a payment he had not received.

 

"He tied himself to the railings and tore open the bottom of his trousers. You could smell the fumes from the liquid he used, but the police arrived by the time he had set himself alight and they managed to put him out quite quickly.

 

"He would have to have been very desperate to have done something like that. It's shocking that somebody could have been driven to those depths."

 

West Midlands police said the man was undergoing a mental health assessment.

 

A spokesman for the PCS union, which represents staff at the centre, said: "While we still don't know the full circumstances, it's tragic and very sad that anyone could be driven to such a desperate act."

 

The incident follows an attempted suicide in a Liverpool benefits office earlier this year.

 

Earlier this month the Guardian revealed that senior Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) managers had sent a note to all staff warning that they take the "utmost care and sensitivity" when dealing with claimants, as a result of "difficult changes which some of our more vulnerable customers may take some time to accept and adjust to".

 

The email added: "Very sadly, only last week a customer of DWP attempted suicide" – which it added was "said to be the result of receiving a letter" informing him that his sickness benefit would be cut off.

 

Last year disability campaigners warned ministers that flaws in work capability assessments which determine the level of support and benefits people are entitled to, would lead to some mentally ill people taking their own lives.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/jun/29/man-on-fire-birmingham-job-centre?newsfeed=true

 

Another man self immolated at Cheddar Gorge after benefit cuts.

 

Malcolm Burge.

 

A vulnerable pensioner set himself on fire and died after a council bombarded him with demands for money when he became confused with changes to the benefit system.

 

Malcolm Burge, 66, found himself more than £800 in debt because of a cut in his housing benefit - which he had not been told about.

 

Newham Borough Council bombarded the struggling OAP with 10 demands for the money but he replied saying he didn't understand the situation and could not afford to pay the lump sum.

 

In despair Mr Burge wrote to the London council saying: "I can't remember the last time I had £800 in my possession.

 

"I'm now more stressed, depressed and suicidal than any of my previous letters. I have no savings or assets.

 

"I'm not trying to live. I'm trying to survive."

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/confused-oap-killed-himself-after-5099567

 

Across Europe we have had economic related self immolations.

 

Greece, Germany, Italy, Spain, Bulgaria, the UK to name a few.

 

 

What is your opinion on the JC+ and wider welfare related self immolations and other suicides in the UK?

 

Are they acceptable?

 

Is there an acceptable level?

 

If we had 1 in 1000 unemployed people self immolate against sanctions would they be stopped?

1 in 100 per annum?

1 in 10 per annum?

 

 

Why do some people react to self immolations - the Arab Spring and various other revolutions.

Why don't others react to self immolation?

 

Are UK and wider EU self immolations ignored by a heartless public?

 

Or are they covered up and the wider public unaware?

 

Have you heard of either of the self immolations listed in the UK before now?

 

Only a few weeks ago a man tried to self immolate outside the BBC but was stopped, this wasn't reported by the BBC, the only report given is that the man shouted, 'non political slogans'.

 

Security staff wrestled a man to the ground after he doused himself in petrol and threatened to self-immolate outside the BBC’s central London headquarters.

 

The man covered himself in the flammable fuel near the entrance to Broadcasting House before being tackled and restrained by security staff until police arrived.

 

http://rt.com/uk/266266-bbc-self-immolation-man/

 

Are you aware of any other self immolations?

Edited July 2, 2015 by chem1st
typo

[Halibut]

The ultimate suicide is the self immolation,

 

In what sense? What makes you say this?

[chem1st]

In what sense? What makes you say this?

 

Meant to write 'ultimate protest'. Will edit.

 

It publicly highlights one's problems and objection to a cause.

 

It is widely used by oppressed people to highlight an injustice - often injustice that has already resulted in many needless suicides and deaths (starvation etc.).

 

Look at Kurdish women, Tibetan monks, unemployed Europeans.

 

All using self immolation in protest at injustice.

[harvey19]

There was a woman on the radio this morning withholding her council tax to make a point.

[ratter71]

Strictly speaking the Birmingham case wasnt self immolation. Also if you want statistics that actually mean anything could you define your usage of "self immolation" as the traditional usage is not exclusive to fire/burning.

[MikeFrank]

I was reading yesterday that a man who was made redundant has been sanctioned for not returning to the same company for work experience... at a later date obviously... but it still is completely wrong..

 

---------- Post added 02-07-2015 at 21:57 ----------

 

I like Chem1st he fights for the weakest members of society which is an admirable quality.

[TheTwirler]

As a society we are barbaric, worse than ISIS even

 

Tom I love you and your views on the housing problem but this is utter tripe.

 

Log onto Liveleak and watch the videos of IS chopping off peoples limbs, throwing homosexual men off buildings, torturing civilian children, kidnapping women from other religions and selling them on as sex slaves, shooting civilians, bombing mosques, persecuting Christians, destroying ancient relics and buildings.

 

And that's just from the last 7 days!

[chem1st]

I love you and your views on the housing problem but this is utter tripe.

 

Log onto Liveleak and watch the videos of IS chopping off peoples limbs, throwing homosexual men off buildings, torturing civilian children, kidnapping women from other religions and selling them on as sex slaves, shooting civilians, bombing mosques, persecuting Christians, destroying ancient relics and buildings.

 

And that's just from the last 7 days!

 

ISIS does not make itself out to be a caring civillised society that values the human life of all, and it has been indirectly helped by other societies including our own, and quite possibly directly too.

 

ISIS is at war, it burned alive a pilot who was dropping bombs and burning alive ISIS members, it was a horrible thing to do.

 

The UK government professes to help those who need it and to value human life, yet it's citizens in need of help are even resorting to burning themselves alive, whilst many others are committing suicide by other means.

 

ISIS citizens aren't burned alive, nor are it's citizens burning themselves alive, others whom they do not recognise as equal humans, are being burned alive because of them yes. But not it's own, in it's "us vs them" Apartheid society.

 

In the UK we as a society (I hope) value life. And as such if we cause one person to burn themselves alive, then this is massive sin and makes us tyrannical.

 

One self immolation in the UK is far worse than a billion carried out by ISIS, for we supposedly value all life, they do not.

 

(To clarify, ISIS's behaviour is disgusting, repugnant, horrific and unholy, and it needs to change)

 

But we also need to change for the better.

Edited July 2, 2015 by chem1st

[Anna B]

Isn't there supposed to be some government statistics pending, on how benefit reductions and denied ESA claims have affected people in terms of deaths and suicides? Can't remember the official name for document.

[chem1st]

Isn't there supposed to be some government statistics pending, on how benefit reductions and denied ESA claims have affected people in terms of deaths and suicides? Can't remember the official name for document.

 

They keep putting it off and hiding the information.

 

Probably easier to estimate by taking suicide levels for 2005-2010 and comparing to 2010-2015 and 2012-14.

 

Statistics might be able to be found out another way. E.g.

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/health/fire-chief-warns-of-rise-in-self-immolations.124913943

 

Scotland's fire chief has warned of what he called a "significant increase in self-immolation".

 

Alasdair Hay, who leads the country's new national rescue service, said he believes around one in four people who die in blazes have taken their own lives.

 

Mr Hay was speaking after it emerged fire deaths fell to their lowest level in two decades in 2013-14, just 33. That compared with 46 the year before and 111 at the turn of the century.

 

He said: "Around a quarter of last year's fire deaths were suicides. We have never experienced that level previously.

 

"We are asking questions about mental health and how we can play a part in understanding what is behind that. That work is in its early stages."

 

The fire chief said that figures could just be a statistical anomaly. Absolute numbers, after all, are low and the "significant increase in self-immolation" could be a simple co-incidence with rare events happening at around he same time.

 

So Police and NHS have been asked to look at the data to see if there is a trend that needs to be addressed.

 

Whilst self immolation remains rare, it has risen recently and now takes up increased share of death by fire in Scotland at least.