What should a British Muslim do?

[Berberis]

Does moderate Islam promote core existential values that run counter to our modern liberal democracy?

 

How can there be such thing when the foundation of Islam is the Quran which is considered infallible but calls for the killing and subjugation of none Muslims.

 

Christianity has gone through a number of reinventions that cast off the old teachings. Islam has not.

[Zamo]

The fact that you're stating what "British Muslims should do". Makes me believe that you think they all need to change their behaviour, which rather implies that they have a common behaviour to change.

Because there are extremists who share beliefs with normal people, you think that all the normal people should change their behaviour and beliefs.

 

Yes, in general, I think British Muslims need to tone down their religious/cultural beliefs and practices because 'normal' it is clearly a platform from which too many are making the leap into extremism. The only way to reduce the number making the leap into extremism is to move further away from it.

 

Yet you're going to ignore the pro life terrorists, simply because, well, it appears to be that it's inconvenient to your argument. They're not attacking "us" you say. So blowing up abortion clinics is okay I guess.

 

It isn't an inconvenience to my argument. If it were a problem in Britain (which it isn't... perhaps in the US) then I would argue that members of any religious group that provided a platform from which a disproportionate amount of people leap into such extremism, would be collectively responsible.

[loraward]

So this applies to Christianity and atheism as well then. In fact, is there a single group that doesn't produce murderers sometimes?

 

As an atheist I can only condemn the actions of the individual atheist because other than a lack of belief in God atheists can have zero in common with each other.

 

 

If I had religion and a belief in God then I would condemn God, for it is God that apparently created everything including the suicide bomber.

 

 

Because I do not not believe that God exists I can also condemn the religious for perpetuating the myth that certain actions will result in eternal pleasure in heaven or paradise, or eternal torment in hell. The members of each religion are responsible for the education and teachings that take place within that religion. There are no teaching or beliefs associated with athisum so the same doesn't apply.

Edited June 15, 2015 by loraward

[the_bloke]

One of the guys present said: If I were a Muslim European I would feel it necessary to apologise …

 

Why would they feel the need to apologise unless they feel remorse for something they have previously supported, agreed with or promoted and now feel it was wrong?

[Zamo]

So this applies to Christianity and atheism as well then. In fact, is there a single group that doesn't produce murderers sometimes?

 

Doesn't change the fact the British Muslim community produces a massively disproportionate level of people who embrace violent and intolerant extremism. An absolute monopoly is not required for criticism to be legitimate.

 

Like Sunday School.

A collective punishment that only applied to one set of people. Okay.

 

Correct. A collective punishment is one bestowed on members of a group regardless of the culpability of each individual. A universal punishment is what would apply to all people.

[Chris_Sleeps]

A collective punishment is one bestowed on members of a group regardless of the culpability of each individual. A universal punishment is what would apply to all people.

Regardless of the semantics, which group should apologise for which people?

 

The British Muslims should apologise for British suicide bombers?

The French Muslims should apologise for French suicide bombers?

 

If you want to make religion the unifying factor, then you'll get swamped in creating universal responsibility anyway. All Muslims should apologise for the actions of all Muslims?

[Cyclone]

Doesn't change the fact the British Muslim community produces a massively disproportionate level of people who embrace violent and intolerant extremism. An absolute monopoly is not required for criticism to be legitimate.

If there were something concrete to criticise then I'd be comfortable with that.

But I can't agree with such massive generalisations.

 

---------- Post added 15-06-2015 at 14:33 ----------

 

It isn't an inconvenience to my argument. If it were a problem in Britain (which it isn't... perhaps in the US) then I would argue that members of any religious group that provided a platform from which a disproportionate amount of people leap into such extremism, would be collectively responsible.

 

I don't see how people become collectively responsible for the behaviour of others who aren't actually following their teachings and instead are ignoring their teachings.

[RonJeremy]

Are you trying to justify it with "it didn't happen here" or that it wasn't in the last few weeks?

---------- Post added 15-06-2015 at 12:54 ----------

I'm not sure I was trying to justify anything. No I can categorically say I did not in any way try to justify a thing.

I am fairly confident I asked 2 questions. Neither of which has been answered.

[loraward]

Regardless of the semantics, which group should apologise for which people?

 

The British Muslims should apologise for British suicide bombers?

The French Muslims should apologise for French suicide bombers?

 

If you want to make religion the unifying factor, then you'll get swamped in creating universal responsibility anyway. All Muslims should apologise for the actions of all Muslims?

 

A Muslim is defined as the follower of the religion of Islam, so there is no distinction between Muslims from different parts of the world, they are a collective group all following the religion of Islam, using the same book to guide their life and worshiping the same God.

[Chris_Sleeps]

A Muslim is defined as the follower of the religion of Islam, so there is no distinction between Muslims from different parts of the world

Indeed. They're also the group of people who are most likely to be killed by Islamic extremists.

 

To make the victims apologise for the crimes done against them seems a backwards leap - for me.