Andy C Posted June 14, 2014 Author Share Posted June 14, 2014 (edited) I go to London (for Brighton and the return journey) 10/12 times a year, and have never once in 7 years caught one of the HST125 trains. The odd one or two still appear on Sheffield-London, mainly early morning/late night and those trains that run through to/from Leeds. As mentioned however, London services aren't part of this consultation, it is routes in the North of England that either currently or may in the future be operated by either the Northern Rail franchise or Transpennine Express franchise. Transpennine Express currently have a modern fleet of class 185 3 car diesels, class 170 2 car diesels and class 350 4 car electrics. Routes currently operated by Transpennine Express are: Transpennine North: Liverpool/Manchester Airport-Huddersfield-Leeds-Hull/York-Scarborough/Middlesborough/Newcastle Transpennine South: Manchester Airport-Sheffield-Doncaster-Cleethorpes Transpennine North West: Manchester-Preston-Blackpool North/Windermere/Barrow In Furness/Glasgow/Edinburgh These are all long distance, limited stop services with both First and Standard class accommodation, seat reservations and a refreshment trolley. Northern Rail have a mostly aging fleet consisting of class 142 and class 144 diesel 'pacer railbus', mix of 2 and 3 car class 150 2 car diesel 'sprinter' class 153 single car diesel unit class 156 2 car diesel 'super sprinter' class 158 diesel, mix of 2 and 3 car class 321 4 car electric class 323 3 car electric class 333 4 car electric Routes currently operated by Northern Rail are: Nottingham-Sheffield-Barnsley-Leeds Sheffield-Barnsley-Huddersfield Sheffield-Rotherham-Wakefield-Leeds Doncaster-Adwick-Wakefield-Leeds Sheffield-Worksop-Retford-Lincoln/Cleethorpes Sheffield-Rotherham-Doncaster-Adwick/Scunthorpe Sheffield-Doncaster-Goole-Hull-Bridlington-Filey-Scarborough Sheffield-Hope Valley-Romiley-Manchester Sheffield-Pontefract-York Hull-Selby-York York-Harrogate-Leeds Leeds-Settle Carlisle Carlisle-Whitehaven-Barrow In Furness Leeds-Lancaster-Morecambe-Heysham Port Colne-Preston-Blackpool South Ormskirk-Preston Blackpool North-Preston-Wigan-Liverpool Leeds-Hebden Bridge-Manchester/Preston-Blackpool North Leeds-Huddersfield Leeds-Dewsbury-Brighouse-Manchester Selby-Leeds Leeds-Bradford/Ilkley/Skipton Manchester/Bradford-Huddersfield-Wakefield Wakefield-Knottingley Manchester-Rose Hill Manchester-Glossop-Hadfield Manchester-Crewe Manchester-Stoke Manchester-Chester Manchester-Buxton Manchester-Liverpool Manchester-Blackburn-Clitheroe Manchester-Wigan-Southport Rochdale-Wigan-Kirkby Warrington-Ellesmere Port Liverpool-Wigan Carlisle-Hexham-Newcastle Newcastle-Morpeth/Chathill Sunderland-Newcastle-Metrocentre Saltburn-Darlington-Newcastle/Bishop Auckland Hexham-Newcastle-Middlesborough Middlesborough-Whitby Most Northern Rail services are basic local services with simple Standard Class accommodation calling all stations. Some facts and figures about the current Northern Rail train company (from their website): Northern was formed in December 2004 when our parent companies won the franchise contract (awarded by the UK Government) to operate train services in the north of England until April 2014. We have 4,900 employees providing nearly 2500 local and regional train services every weekday, making us the largest train operator in the UK. We run trains across the north of England, serving a population of nearly 15m. Our trains call at over 500 stations (approximately 20% of all UK railway stations), of which we manage 462. We lease around 313 trains, both diesel and electric. We provide direct access to three National parks; Peak District, Yorkshire Dales and North Yorkshire Moors as well as routes into the Lake District. Edited June 14, 2014 by Andy C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Se7enhills Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Northern also get the highest subsidy per passenger mile of any TOC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichJay Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 northernboy - Sheffield-London service hasn't had slam-door trains for a long while. It did when I came back from London last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyGirl Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 I don't know how Northern actually make any money. Ticket offices hardly open at smaller stations, ticket machines removed, overcrowded trains so guards cannot get to every passenger and take fares. The saturday trains are a classic when Rotherham play. I have only managed to pay twice in 3 years. The pacer units are a disgrace. 30 years old! Even Iranian railways have withdrawn their fleet! These consultations are a complete waste of time, they will do what they want, we will end up with Southern cast offs for 'new' rolling stock. Overcrowding will continue, staff cuts will continue. Non payment will rise etc......I'm just glad I do not have to rely on the train services on a regular basis, stick to the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1978 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 (edited) On the other side of the coin, with the Transpennine Express diverted after Doncaster to go to Hull instead of Cleethorpes, replacing the current Northern rail Sheffield-Hull express, this would see Sheffield-Hull passengers enjoy an upgrade to an Intercity standard on board environment, however it would reduce the Hull-Leeds route to a shuttle with through passengers for Manchester getting a much longer journey via Sheffield. This all seems to be a result of the North Transpennine electrification not including Hull. However, Hull and Hull Trains are making a good case to electrify from Selby to Hull which adds another twist to the future planning, see; http://www.hulltrains.co.uk/about-us/news/2014/03/first-hull-trains-welcomes-%C2%A324m-government-pledge-to-electrify-train-lines-from-hull-to-selby/ and; http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Electrification-Hull-Selby-railway-line-power/story-20837410-detail/story.html A target date of 2017 sounds a little optimistic, but if it's to be mostly paid for by Hull Trains maybe it isn't. Curiously, the aim of the Northern Hub locally is to provide paths for at least 3 fast trains an hour down the Hope Valley to Manchester. It wasn't so very long ago that I seem to recall the fast services between Sheffield and Manchester served Cleethorpes and Hull alternately. Deprive Cleethorpes of direct trains for 2 or 3 years, then announce an improved service Sheffield - Manchester; that third Hope Valley hourly train, going from Cleethorpes to Blackpool - or even Windermere?! Edited June 14, 2014 by 1978 Added paragraph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiggs Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 (edited) However, Hull and Hull Trains are making a good case to electrify from Selby to Hull which adds another twist to the future planning, see; http://www.hulltrains.co.uk/about-us/news/2014/03/first-hull-trains-welcomes-%C2%A324m-government-pledge-to-electrify-train-lines-from-hull-to-selby/ and; http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Electrification-Hull-Selby-railway-line-power/story-20837410-detail/story.html A target date of 2017 sounds a little optimistic, but if it's to be mostly paid for by Hull Trains maybe it isn't. First have a very big stake in the railways in and out of Hull, given that they operate the only services that could be deemed express. If they pull this off I hope they retain the TPE franchise as well and fully profit from their investment. Not fully convinced that having one of the Hull to Sheffield trains run through to Manchester benefits anyone much, unless you're going to Hull to Stockport! It's just strikes me as a slow way to get between Hull and Manchester and a lazy way to give people going between Hull and Sheffield decent trains, if you want to extend the route it should join the Cross-country franchise and run through to Birmingham. Edited June 14, 2014 by smiggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Se7enhills Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 I don't know how Northern actually make any money. . They dont - Thats why they get a huge subsidy as a public service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheekyBandit Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 The vast majority of those lines/stations though have ticket barriers on them though. That don't seem to accept other train companies' tickets. And with gateline staff who are complete muppets. I have often got refused by Southeastern staff who seemed to think the return half of my Super Off-Peak ticket (from Sheffield to the Woolwich area) was not valid in the morning rush hour on their trains. What part of "Super Off-Peak tickets issued for journeys commencing within the Network Area to destinations outside the Network Area with travel via London are valid by any train to London to connect with trains from London" don't they understand - clear as anything in the restriction code "CI" printed on tickets from Sheffield to and via London (below the price). I have also have had a lengthy argument about my return half of a Super Off-Peak return ticket to Sheffield (to Stone Crossing) not being valid on HS1 on the basis that it had route Chesterfield on it - ATOC Easement 700283: Customers travelling from Dartford, Stone Crossing, Greenhithe, Swanscombe and Northfleet via Ebbsfleet International in possession of tickets routed "Plus High Speed" may travel via Gravesend. This easement applies in both directions.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Se7enhills Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 a lot of Gateline staff are not Railway employees so the terms peanuts and monkeys are applicable Rialway employeed Gateline staff will be on about £21k pa,,,,the agency ones on NMW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted June 14, 2014 Author Share Posted June 14, 2014 (edited) However, Hull and Hull Trains are making a good case to electrify from Selby to Hull which adds another twist to the future planning, see; http://www.hulltrains.co.uk/about-us/news/2014/03/first-hull-trains-welcomes-%C2%A324m-government-pledge-to-electrify-train-lines-from-hull-to-selby/ and; http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Electrification-Hull-Selby-railway-line-power/story-20837410-detail/story.html A target date of 2017 sounds a little optimistic, but if it's to be mostly paid for by Hull Trains maybe it isn't. Curiously, the aim of the Northern Hub locally is to provide paths for at least 3 fast trains an hour down the Hope Valley to Manchester. It wasn't so very long ago that I seem to recall the fast services between Sheffield and Manchester served Cleethorpes and Hull alternately. Deprive Cleethorpes of direct trains for 2 or 3 years, then announce an improved service Sheffield - Manchester; that third Hope Valley hourly train, going from Cleethorpes to Blackpool - or even Windermere?! The consultation documents seem to suggest the most likely outcome is the third Sheffield-Manchester express per hour will run through to Liverpool via Warrington to replace a service diverted via the other (electrified) route via Newton Le Willows. The Hull electrification will be from Hull via Selby to the East Coast Mainline so London services can go electric. There would still be a gap from Selby to Leeds. Edited June 14, 2014 by Andy C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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