All new all things BNP megathread - ALL BNP topics here...

[Wildcat]

thats just it. more and more people dont see them as failings. you'll realise when its too late. society is changing, it will happen. we need a complete change of political thinking, the left wing ideology of open borders will result in large scale civil disorder.

 

It is especially sad when we don't have open borders. The only people that want and are working towards large scale civil disorder are the BNP and their far right chums, something that makes someone concerned about those issues voting for the BNP ironic.

 

A recent compilation of research by Bristol University for example shows the number of migrants and immigrants in the UK is unexceptional across europe and the rest of the Western world :

 

• The myth: Britain has too many immigrants. The evidence: there are unexceptional immigration levels in Britain. Less than 3% of the world’s migrants live in the UK compared to 5% in Germany and 20% in the USA. Migrants make up 9% of the population in the UK, the same as the average for Europe.

• The myth: Britain's becoming a country of ghettos. The evidence: Thousands of wards have a majority white population. Only eight wards have a majority of a single minority ethnic group. These wards are in Leicester, Bradford, Pendle, Ealing and Tower Hamlets. The highest proportion for a single minority group is 74%, the proportion of Indians in the population of the Latimer ward of Leicester. This does not meet the criteria of a ghetto

• The myth: More segregation into friendship groups. The evidence: When the Chair of the Commission for Racial Equality claimed in 2005 that “alarmingly, we showed that young people from ethnic minorities were twice as likely to have a circle of pals exclusively from their own community as were older ethnic minority folk”, he was using a judicious compound of alarmist language and false claim to scientific rigour to create a striking message about friendship groups, unsupported by the evidence. For most minority young people, roughly half or more than half of their friends are White.

• The myth: Minorities want to live in segregated neighbourhoods. The evidence: Housing aspirations of young people from white and minority ethnic groups are very similar: they all desire safe neighbourhoods with good environments, no anti-social behaviour and to be near to family and friends. Focus groups across many districts show that minority young people want to live in mixed neighbourhoods.

• The myth: White flight and minority retreat. The evidence: The movement out of minority neighbourhoods is non-racial: it is at similar rates by each minority ethnic group and the White group. Dispersal of this kind is evident for each ethnic group, for the 1990s and the 2000s and for districts, wards and street-level neighbourhoods. Indians are leaving Leicester, Caribbeans are leaving Lambeth, Bangladeshis are leaving Tower Hamlets and Pakistanis are leaving Bradford. These patterns have non-racial explanations. They represent aspirational movements reflecting responses to housing markets and lifestyle choices and well established trends of suburbanisation.

 

I have the full document but can only link to the summary. The section of the summary dealing with immigration levels gives some more detail:

 

Immigration

 

The evidence: The UK experience of international migration is not remarkable when set in a global context

 

The myth: Britain has an unfair share of immigrants

 

* The number of immigrants in Britain (foreign-born) increased from 2.6 million in 1961 to 5.4 million in 2005.This rise of 110% is the same as the worldwide increase. These UN calculations take into account the changes in boundaries in Europe and the Soviet Union (pp 55-56).

* Increased international migration is a common experience for developed, economically strong nations. Immigration is expected for countries with strong economies as international moves are shaped by patterns of supply and demand of jobs and labour (pp 59, 84-85).

* Not only has the UK’s immigration grown in line with world migration, but the UK has a smaller proportion of immigrants and lower rates of net immigration than the US, Canada, Australia and several large European countries (pp 55-56, 59-60,Table 3.2).

* Less than 3% of the world’s migrants live in the UK compared with 5% in Germany and 20% in the US (pp 59-60).

* Migrants (those born outside the country) make up 9% of the population in the UK compared with 12% in Germany and 13% in the US. 9% is the average for Europe (p 60,Table 3.2).

* The UK’s net in-migration rate is 2 per 1,000 population compared with 3 in Germany and 4 in the US (p 60,Table 3.2).

 

For more on Britain’s immigration experience in global context, see Chapter Three.

 

The evidence: Measurement of international migration requires care, and recognition of the diversity of migrants

 

The myth: We all know how much immigration there is (too much)

 

* The challenges of measuring international migration do not justify an assumption that levels of immigration are problematically large (pp 54-56).

* Ethnicity and immigration should not be confused: half of all minority residents were born in the UK and two thirds of immigrants are White (p 57).

* Undocumented migration is by its nature not measurable (and can only be estimated), except after an amnesty (p 57).

 

For more on measuring immigration, see Chapter Three.

 

The evidence: Immigrants are diverse and increasingly short-term stayers

 

The myth: Britain’s flooded with problem immigrants

 

* Immigration to Britain in the year prior to the last census was equivalent to less than 1% of the population. In total, around 6% of residents in Britain are foreign nationals (residents who do not have British citizenship) (p 57).

* The myth of too many immigrants only has weight because it focuses on so-called ‘problem’ immigrants and in doing so draws on negative stereotypes (pp 56-57).

* Only 6% of recent immigrants to Britain were asylum seekers (p 56).

* Of the 205,000 migrants from European Union (EU) Accession countries in 2005, almost two thirds intended to stay for less than three months and would therefore not be classed as immigrants. The significance of short-term international migration is increasing (p 56).

 

For more on the diversity of immigration to Britain, see Chapter Three.

 

The evidence: Immigrants are a select group: young, motivated and skilled

 

The myth: Immigrants are lazy, good-for-nothing scroungers

 

* Immigrants are entrepreneurial, fill labour market gaps and improve productivity (p 62).

* Immigrants tend to be professionals and managers and this has been the case for three decades. Even refugees, often thought of as a burden, are more highly skilled than the population of Britain on average: 23% of refugees have a skilled trade compared with 12% of the rest of the UK population, and 22% of refugees are managers or senior officials compared with 15% of the rest of the UK population (p 62).

* Immigrants are more likely than people born in the UK to be graduates (p 83,Table 4.4).

* Immigrants tend to be young – 91% were of working age in 2004. This redresses the balance of an ageing population, reducing the dependency of the economically inactive on the economically active (p 63).

 

For more on the selectivity of immigrants, see Chapter Three.

 

The evidence: Neither immigrants nor minorities take up most space in Britain

 

The myth: Not enough space and not enough housing because of immigration

 

* Myth-makers blame problems of population growth on immigrants. But they identify problem populations by ethnicity. Undoubtedly immigration and ethnicity are related but they must not be conflated. Half of all people in minority ethnic groups have been born in the UK and two thirds of immigrants are White (p 57).

* The apparent pressure on space and housing is much more a result of a trend for smaller household sizes and larger houses than it is the result of population growth through immigration (pp 79-80).

* Ethnic minorities are less responsible for this space and housing pressure than the White population. For example:

o On average, White Britons live in households of 2.3 people whereas Bangladeshis live in households of 4.2 people (p 80, Table 4.1).

o 30% of White Britons live in one-person households compared with 9% of Bangladeshis (p 80, Table 4.2).

o White Britons take up three times the land area that Bangladeshis take up (p 80, Table 4.3).

* If the whole population lived in flats, with an average household size of four, without using up any more land than is currently used for housing, 201 million people could be accommodated in Britain (p 80).

* Immigration is not the reason for Greenfield development. Residential movement out of cities has been occurring for at least half a century and is not unique to the UK. This counter urbanisation is as much to do with lifestyle choice as it is to do with population pressure.

* People are not being pushed to the suburbs and rural areas because of immigrants. There is a stronger case that immigration is a consequence of counter urbanisation as immigrants take on the low-wage jobs and cheap housing that are left in urban centres (pp 81-82).

* MigrationWatchUK claims that England is overcrowded at 390 people per square kilometre but this is very sparse compared with London’s 4,700 people per square kilometre.The population density of the UK (250/sq km) is similar to that of Germany (p 81).

 

For more on who is really putting pressure on space and housing in Britain, see Chapter Four.

 

The evidence: Economic bonus of immigration

 

The myth: Immigrants are an economic burden

 

* There is consensus – among government, the House of Lords, researchers and even anti-immigration organisations such as MigrationWatchUK – that immigration has an overall positive economic effect in Britain (p 61).

* On average, wage growth is encouraged by immigration. Immigrants are more likely than others to experience employment conditions that do not meet minimum standards (p 61).

* The UK is a net gainer of remittances. That is, more money is sent to the UK from people living abroad than is sent abroad from people living in the UK (pp 61-62).

 

For more on economic benefits of immigration, see Chapter Three.

 

The evidence: Immigrants use fewer public services than they pay for

 

The myth: Immigrants are a burden on the state

 

* Migrants are self-selective – they are more likely to be young, in good health, well qualified and of high socioeconomic status than people who do not migrate to Britain (p 82).

* Immigrants are more likely to be managers or professionals, and more likely to be graduates, than people born in the UK (p 83,Table 4.4).

* Immigrants contribute more in taxes than they use in benefits and public services (p 84).

* 6% of non-British nationals in Manchester are claiming out-of-work benefit compared with 20% of the total working-age population of the district. The figure for England and Wales as a whole is 8% (p 85).

* Asylum seekers do not have the right to work.They are eligible to apply for accommodation and subsistence support from the National Asylum Support Service but not for other benefits. Since 1993, levels of destitution among asylum seekers have markedly increased (p 85).

 

For more on why immigrants aren’t a burden, see Chapter Four.

 

The evidence: Services that respect ethnic diversity are no more costly than other equality services

 

he myth: The burden of ethnic diversity is too great for service providers

 

* Responding to diversity of needs is nothing new, and there is no reason for the costs associated with service provision for ethnic diversity to be any more seen as a burden than costs associated with service provision for gender, dietary or any other kind of diversity (p 86).

* If diversity is framed as competition, so that one person’s demands are seen as a threat to others, then the minority easily becomes the scapegoat for more structural problems of scarcity of resources (p 86).

 

For more on why ethnic diversity isn’t a burden, see Chapter Four.

 

The evidence: MigrationWatchUK selects its figures to make a political case

 

The myth: MigrationWatchUK is a reliable source for immigration information and comment

 

* MigrationWatchUK sustains the myth that there is too much immigration by presenting evidence that is far from balanced, using claims that are factually inaccurate. Its use of immigration figures out of context promotes fear of immigration and of immigrants. MigrationWatchUK does not make clear why it is only population growth through immigration that it considers a problem.

* MigrationWatchUK holds political weight due to its acceptance by parts of the media and political elite, not because its logic and statistics hold water (pp 63-69).

* MigrationWatchUK claims that it is only concerned about the balance of migration but is clearly anti-immigration with prejudices against non-Western immigrants (p 66).

* MigrationWatchUK’s claim that 83% of the UK’s population growth is due to immigration is a nonsense calculation – it might as well have said that immigration accounts for 211% of the UK’s growth. MigrationWatchUK chooses the figure that gives it the best headline (pp 65-66).

* MigrationWatchUK’s arguments are founded on the concept that population growth (through immigration) is costly for Britain. But the evidence shows that immigrants are not more costly than others in terms of use of space, housing requirements or benefits claims. And immigrants overall have a positive impact on Britain’s economy (pp 66-69, 78-82).

* MigrationWatchUK argues that the cost of children of immigrants should be taken into account when calculating the economic effect of immigration. But in this logic, at what point – after how many generations – does one stop being an immigrant (p 68)?

 

For more on MigrationWatchUK’s fanciful footwork with figures, see Chapter Three.

 

Summary

Edited April 9, 2009 by Wildcat

[Wildcat]

Haven't heard anything about that, Mel. I did hear of the terror raids at various locations across North West England. Ten of those arrested are Pakistan-born nationals on student visas and one is a UK-born British national. Do you think they could be BNP members?

 

He might be thinking of Kate Dermody and her friends in the BPP arrested on terrorism grounds earlier on this week.

 

Police have raided the home of a Bradford care worker after she was arrested under the Terrorism Act.

 

Kate Read, of Eccleshill, was detained by police in central London with four other friends as they travelled by car on their way to a pro-Ulster meeting in a pub.

 

Police searching the car found 20 pin badges – some of which carried names of loyalist paramilitary groups that are banned under the Terrorism Act.

 

While Miss Read was held in a cell at a police station in the capital, police raided her home in Bradford, taking away items including 79 compact discs and two camera cards.

 

Miss Read, who runs her own care business, said she was searched on a street and kept in a cell for 12 hours before being quizzed by the counter-terrorism squad and finally being allowed to return home.

 

She said more than 30 police officers, including some in riot gear, had been waiting close to the pub as the friend’s car she was travelling in got closer.

 

The car was pulled over and its occupants were told to get out and stand on the street where they were searched.

 

She said she and her friends were stood for more than one hour up against a wall and told not to move while the car was searched and police decided what to do with them.

 

They were then put in a van, she said, and driven to Holborn Police Station where they were put in separate cells before being interrogated by the counter- terrorism officers. Miss Read, who admitted to the Telegraph & Argus to being “anti-IRA”, was later released on police bail.

 

She has protested about her arrest.

 

She said: “I am a political person, I am anti-IRA and I am pro-Ulster but that doesn’t make me a terrorist.

 

“This is supposed to be a free country. I’m worried about my future now. I’m worried it will destroy my business as a care worker and stop me from doing a nursing degree in September if they decide to go ahead with any charges against me.”

 

She has been told to answer bail in London on May 5.

 

A Metropolitan Police spokesman confirmed that a 30-year-old Bradford woman was among five people arrested under the Terrorism Act last weekend.

 

Telegraph & Argus

 

Kirklees Unity Says:

 

Whilst she is using the name Read she is probably better known as Kate Dermody, girlfriend of Redwatch's Kevin Watmough and leading bigmouth from the minuscule and laughable British Peoples Party.

 

http://kirkunity.blogspot.com/2009/04/terror-unit-arrests-anti-ira-woman.html

 

Or he might have been thinking of the BNP Councillor convicted earlier this week of attacking his ex-wife

http://kirkunity.blogspot.com/2009/04/bnp-man-jailed-for-attack-on-woman.html

 

Or the suspended sentence for the BFP person's race hate speech:

http://kirkunity.blogspot.com/2009/04/far-right-leader-gets-suspended-prison.html

 

Or he might be thinking of the imminent sentencing of BPP Simon Sheppard and Kevin Watmough for race hate, in absentia as we are still awaiting the outcome of their asylum claim in the USA.

http://kirkunity.blogspot.com/2009/03/police-close-in-on-race-hate-duo.html

[retep]

Does anyone ever read all these long paste's by Wildcat.

[Halibut]

Does anyone ever read all these long paste's by Wildcat.

 

You clearly don't - wouldn't want to challenge your own ignorance I expect.

[Halibut]

Politics in this country sickens me. Yet, when there is a general public thread about encouraging kids to have under age sex, then what can be expected?!

 

Are you nuts? There is no such thread.

[retep]

You clearly don't - wouldn't want to challenge your own ignorance I expect.

 

I would have thought the people he's aiming them at would have already read them,as it's old news, so your dig hasn't worked oh super intelligent one.

[Halibut]

I would have thought the people he's aiming them at would have already read them,as it's old news, so your dig hasn't worked oh super intelligent one.

 

So retep - (why the lower case 'r' by the way?) how do you respond, as a supporter of the BNP to the research from Bristol that suggests that -

 

 

* Immigrants contribute more in taxes than they use in benefits and public services (p 84).

* 6% of non-British nationals in Manchester are claiming out-of-work benefit compared with 20% of the total working-age population of the district. The figure for England and Wales as a whole is 8% (p 85).?

[Bago]

Does anyone ever read all these long paste's by Wildcat.

Yes, if you wish to see a fair-minded view.

No, if you do not wish to see any other counter-arguments and facts to further the narrow-minded bigoted viewpoint.

 

He doesn't have to dig them out, in order for me to accept it as reflection of reality.

 

Ghettos - this will not exist, and does not exist as the next generation further themselves in education and choices. Most will want to move out and see the world, and this reduces the number of supposed "ghettos" which is portrayed here.

 

Statistically speaking, ethnic minorities are still a small percentage which makes up the 60 million of this country's population. Islam believers also make up even a smaller number of this. Yet, out of how many are first generation, or second generation born Brits? Therefore the numbers of non-speaking English Muslims are pretty low! How many of these citizens actually want the law to change, and to change for them only? Not very many. The fact is that, the law exists for everybody. Anyone can put forward changes, and it does not have to be accepted all of the time, and it never really ends up as a law.

 

So, why has so many jumped up and down to marginalise others, and to make it almost a political game out of all of this?

[retep]

So retep - (why the lower case 'r' by the way?) how do you respond, as a supporter of the BNP to the research from Bristol that suggests that -

 

 

* Immigrants contribute more in taxes than they use in benefits and public services (p 84).

* 6% of non-British nationals in Manchester are claiming out-of-work benefit compared with 20% of the total working-age population of the district. The figure for England and Wales as a whole is 8% (p 85).?

 

I don't have to respond as I'm a supporter of no political party, I believe in if you don't like them vote them out.

 

Why the Halibut by the way is it because it has a big mouth can only feed on the bottom and can't see straight?

 

Thats not a dig at you by the way.

[Bago]

Are you nuts? There is no such thread.

Are you sure about that? You even posted on it!

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=465129&page=32

 

I have asked, why are people encouraging kids to have sex at a young age even though it is illegal? I have not had a decent answer yet, apart from the usual "there is nothing we can do about it".