Some good news at last - Obama is back in front

[Wildcat]

Nonsense. The people whose tax burden has shot through the roof are the middle classes. The lower classes are no worse off - they even received an offset for the very fair recent tax adjustment, while middle earners were hit with a 20% NI increase.

 

If you recall the recent tax adjustment redistributed wealth from the poor to the rich. It was not so long ago. I remember doing the calculations on the forum. Those earning less than £15k a year lost out and those earning more benefitted.

 

Also how do you explain the widening poverty gap, with your claim that the 'lower classes' are no worse off?

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/consumer_affairs/article2090632.ece

 

Only because Blair & co have avoided alienating themselves from their financial backers, and because even they aren't so stupid as to supertax the rich and watch them all leave the UK like happened under the last Labour term.

 

The super rich avoid paying tax anyway. And frankly good riddance if they aren't prepared to contribute.

 

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/tax-advice/income-tax/article.html?in_article_id=421577&in_page_id=77

[Kitten Pie]

If you recall the recent tax adjustment redistributed wealth from the poor to the rich. It was not so long ago. I remember doing the calculations on the forum.

Also how do you explain the widening poverty gap, with your claim that the 'lower classes' are no worse off?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/consumer_affairs/article2090632.ece

The Super rich avoid tax anyway.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/tax-advice/income-tax/article.html?in_article_id=421577&in_page_id=77 bvv

We could both quote articles to support our claims - the internet's great for that.

 

I agree that the super rich get away with tax - it is wrong and there should be a flat tax, which would require everybody to pay about 25%.

 

As for "Those earning less than £15k a year lost out and those earning more benefitted",

- No. Those on lower incomes have (apart from a very few) been fully compensated for losing the 10% limit. Those earning more have been stuffed by a significant increase (20%) in the upper threshold of 11% NI which cost them more than they would have gained from the income tax change.

 

As ever, the middle classes suffered another net increase in taxation.

[callippo]

latest : McCain has given up on Michigan. He won't be turning up there any more, and his tv ads have been pulled. So that's 17 EC votes Obama can count on that McCain's campaign had fancied their chances with.

 

but McCain never had a chance in that state anyway, and I was surprised that he bothered with it all and that the media were reporting it as a possible swing state, which they were. Even Dukkakis took it. McCain can comfortably win the election while losing Michigan.

[al beit]

It doesn't remind me of anything specifically, other than addressing your point that appeasement is a bad thing, which clearly it isn't, depending on the circumstances.

 

So the Nu Labour socialists are doing the same thing as the American republicans then?

[al beit]

More privatisations than under Thatcher.

 

And the increasing poverty gap demonstrate that it is not the middle classes but the working classes that have paid for the redistribution of wealth under labour to the most wealthy.

 

Whilst Socialism is about redistribution of wealth, that wealth is supposed to go to the poor not from them to the rich.

 

Your socialist ideals are too expensive for the middle class and high earners to afford and the product of your policies are being felt now.

 

Socialism costs more than it is worth and I think we have all worked that one out. The working "class" man has been screwed under his own government as the rest of us have too. Wake up and smell the coffee. The wrong will be righted in time but not under Nu Labour.

 

Socialism and capitalism will never work hand in hand. Socialism is all about control and being a nanny state we live in today. It hasn't made us progress very far. A Conservative state is about making people responsible for themselves instead of depending on the state or "others" to provide for them, its about taking ownership of your own life and your future, the very thing that drives a person forward, instead of wanting or lacking and blaming everyone else around you for the fact you didn't study and make something of yourself.

 

Socialism dictates that the ones who do well in life have to pay to keep the ones who didn't do so well or couldn't be bothered to achieve. I see why you are so happy to sit in a mediocre job now and spit on the likes of me who did something with their life and keep the likes of you.

[Foie Gras]

The super rich avoid paying tax anyway. And frankly good riddance if they aren't prepared to contribute.

Like happened under Wilson/Callaghan when we had the brain drain?

[Wildcat]

Your socialist ideals are too expensive for the middle class and high earners to afford and the product of your policies are being felt now.

 

The billions of pounds being spent supporting the bad decisions made by the banks because of a lack of regulation has cost us far more than any socialist policy.

[Wildcat]

latest : McCain has given up on Michigan. He won't be turning up there any more, and his tv ads have been pulled. So that's 17 EC votes Obama can count on that McCain's campaign had fancied their chances with.

 

but McCain never had a chance in that state anyway, and I was surprised that he bothered with it all and that the media were reporting it as a possible swing state, which they were. Even Dukkakis took it. McCain can comfortably win the election while losing Michigan.

 

McCain on MSNBC gave a bizarre incoherent explanation for why he was voting in favour of the bill to bail out the US banks.

 

Because of what you just said, Mika, that this bill is putting us on the brink of economic disaster there were plenty of other bills that I fought against, voted against. Well, the bill that the medicare prescription drug program, I voted against it, because it didn't -- because of the fact that it wasn't paid for. We're laying the cost on to future generations of Americans. I fought against plenty of bills. I am proud of my work, suspending my campaign, coming back to Washington, getting the Republicans at the table, which we were not, improving the bill, and I believe it will pass. Senator Obama phoned it in.

 

 

The best decoding of it appears to be something like:

 

Barack Obama failed to put forth an effort to pass a bill that I hate because it "lays the cost on...future generations" and puts us on the "brink" of "disaster," but I am proud of the work I did to ensure its passage.

 

Sarah Palin disease appears to be communicable.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/02/john-mccain-gets-incohere_n_131241.html

[Alien]

Your socialist ideals are too expensive for the middle class and high earners to afford and the product of your policies are being felt now.

 

Socialism costs more than it is worth and I think we have all worked that one out. The working "class" man has been screwed under his own government as the rest of us have too. Wake up and smell the coffee. The wrong will be righted in time but not under Nu Labour.

 

Socialism and capitalism will never work hand in hand. Socialism is all about control and being a nanny state we live in today. It hasn't made us progress very far. A Conservative state is about making people responsible for themselves instead of depending on the state or "others" to provide for them, its about taking ownership of your own life and your future, the very thing that drives a person forward, instead of wanting or lacking and blaming everyone else around you for the fact you didn't study and make something of yourself.

 

Socialism dictates that the ones who do well in life have to pay to keep the ones who didn't do so well or couldn't be bothered to achieve. I see why you are so happy to sit in a mediocre job now and spit on the likes of me who did something with their life and keep the likes of you.QUOTE]

 

I think you'll find it does...in actual fact it is actually happening.

Who do you think is going to bail out the fat cats at Wall St?..... the government!! which in effect is the people.

 

Colourful words al beit...when those that do work hard and on a subsistence income bailout those that suck those at the bottom dry.

 

Capitalism and socialism can work alongside each other if your prepared to lower your boundaries.

[al beit]

The billions of pounds being spent supporting the bad decisions made by the banks because of a lack of regulation has cost us far more than any socialist policy.

 

It was a socialist government that presided over the whole fiasco.