Nottingham Stabbings

[Axe 836]

It is ludicrous his guilty plea for attempted murder was accepted while at the same time he has not been put on trial for murder for those victims who died.  It should have been a jury who decided whether he was guilty or not guilty of murder and not Doctors.  Very unsatisfactory. 

[cuttsie 1,091]

If the police had arrested him as they had been ordered to he would not have been on the streets , Another cover up .

[Axe 836]

2 minutes ago, cuttsie said:

If the police had arrested him as they had been ordered to he would not have been on the streets , Another cover up .

Correct.  There was a warrant for his arrest that was not carried out. 

 

[retep 68]

14 minutes ago, Al Bundy said:

Well, the monster is off the streets for good.

 

Let him have his t.v and cosy cell, he will never be able to enjoy the freedom we all have.

 

 

Until the next professional says he can be let out.

[Axe 836]

6 minutes ago, retep said:

Until the next professional says he can be let out.

That is a possibility.  The judge mentioned that possibility  before he sentenced him.  The judge did say it was unlikely he would ever be freed. 

[Ridgewalk 102]

On 23/01/2024 at 23:11, The_DADDY said:

There's a big difference between not being 100% successful and being so bad at your job that you unleash a psychopath on the streets who then goes on to murder 3 and try to murder more.

Or do you not understand that?

 

More thread spoiling from one of the usual suspects. 🙄

He wasn’t a psychopath, if he had been he would have been more easily managed

On 23/01/2024 at 23:18, peak4 said:

He hasn't been sentenced yet, so perhaps before speculating, folks should await the court's sentencing remarks; I would imagine they will be published in a case such as this.
"Today at Nottingham Crown Court prosecutor Karim Khalil KC said the 32-year-old's guilty plea to manslaughter has been accepted after consultation with the victims' families. It is now down to the judge to decide what sentence he faces."
https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/nottingham-attacks-live-valdo-calocane-9051747

I suspect it was always going to end this way given the attackers mental history; it strikes me that the victims, their families, and even the offender, were all failed by our mental health services ; and maybe the police are culpable  too.
It was known he'd been previously diagnosed, and also that he'd failed to take his medication. I'm sure folk will be investigating whether he should already been sectioned, and if not, why not.

The relevant legislation regarding the differences between alternative charges are available here;
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/homicide-murder-manslaughter-infanticide-and-causing-or-allowing-death-or-serious

 

Murder

Subject to three exceptions (which constitute partial defences to murder, and result in a conviction for manslaughter)

the crime of murder is committed, where a person:

is of sound mind and discretion (sane)

 

 

Manslaughter
Manslaughter is primarily committed in one of three ways:

Killing with the intent for murder but where a partial defence applies, namely loss of control, diminished responsibility or killing pursuant to a suicide pact.

..................

Diminished Responsibility
The defendant must prove the following four elements:

the defendant was suffering from an abnormality of mental functioning
if so, whether it had arisen from a recognised medical condition
if so, whether it had substantially impaired the defendant's ability either to understand the nature of their conduct or to form a rational judgment or to exercise self-control (or any combination)
if so, whether it provided an explanation for their conduct: section 2 Homicide Act 1957 as amended by section 52 Coroners and Justice Act 2009

 

Be interesting to see what the enquiry into the case says about Mental Health Services.

[Ridgewalk 102]

On 23/01/2024 at 23:58, The_DADDY said:

Completely irrelevant. 

They should know the conditions of the job they are applying for. If they don't then that's their failing, no one else's. 

Again. Irrelevant.  

You're just trying to deflect blame by the looks of things.  They screwed up. 3 people died. There were Many red flags but they went ignored.

Someone needs to be held to account.

Simple as that.

Agreed

1 hour ago, retep said:

Until the next professional says he can be let out.

Won’t happen 

[Baz1 29]

2 hours ago, Al Bundy said:

Well, the monster is off the streets for good.

 

Let him have his t.v and cosy cell, he will never be able to enjoy the freedom we all have.

 

 

He should rot in a tiny cell with no tv or anything, other than a loo.

 

This was murder, pre meditated and nothing else.  He knew what he was doing and had even spoken to his brother, to tell him "he'd done something".

 

Three people are dead and this guy gets to live probably 30+ more years.

[Ridgewalk 102]

2 hours ago, Axe said:

It is ludicrous his guilty plea for attempted murder was accepted while at the same time he has not been put on trial for murder for those victims who died.  It should have been a jury who decided whether he was guilty or not guilty of murder and not Doctors.  Very unsatisfactory. 

Although a trial might have been in the public interest and given families more satisfaction, the outcome would have been the same 

[Axe 836]

9 minutes ago, Ridgewalk said:

Although a trial might have been in the public interest and given families more satisfaction, the outcome would have been the same 

You are only guessing the outcome would have been the same.  Peter Sutcliffe pleaded not guilty for murder on the grounds of diminished responsibility at his trial but the jury found him guilty of murder.  The CPS made a mistake in my opinion and the families opinion by accepting a not guilty of murder  plea on the grounds of diminished responsibility.  

Edited January 25 by Axe

[melthebell 864]

It's amazing how many experts on the legal system and mental health provision we now have on here

[Ridgewalk 102]

28 minutes ago, melthebell said:

It's amazing how many experts on the legal system and mental health provision we now have on here

 

34 minutes ago, Axe said:

You are only guessing the outcome would have been the same.  Peter Sutcliffe pleaded not guilty for murder on the grounds of diminished responsibility at his trial but the jury found him guilty of murder.  The CPS made a mistake in my opinion and the families opinion by accepting a not guilty of murder  plea on the grounds of diminished responsibility.  

Five psychiatric reports all singing from the same hymn sheet. The judge could however have ignored the reports as they are only «  advisory », as he said in his summing up. I think the psychotic phenomena in the Nottingham case was clearer than in Sutcliffes case. But you may be right

32 minutes ago, melthebell said:

It's amazing how many experts on the legal system and mental health provision we now have on here

You are welcome to contribute if you’ve anything sensible to add.