Bus Timetable Changes 3 September 2023

[RollingJ 2,054]

1 minute ago, Irene Swaine said:

They aren't allowed to use revenue from other routes to cover loss making routes.

In theory - but how do you police that?

[Irene Swaine 1,072]

Just now, RollingJ said:

In theory - but how do you police that?

I was wondering the same thing....

[RollingJ 2,054]

Just now, Irene Swaine said:

I was wondering the same thing....

In practice, you don't.

[Resident 1,195]

1 hour ago, Irene Swaine said:

Routes like the 120 should turn a small profit at busy times of the day then. 

FSY's reported profit 2021/22 was around £800,000. 

Buses run on average 15hrs a day (some less, some upto 20hrs). ~500 in the SY fleet.

We'll say £80/hr for sake of argument. 

 

So one bus for a day's operation: 80 x 15 = 1200

Now there won't be all 500 buses in service, MOTs, repair work etc so I'll posit 30 off-road. 

470 x 1200 =   564,000

So the profit FSY made literally wouldn't run the current service levels for 1.5 days.

It also isn't enough to buy 2 new buses, which is why the fleet in SY is as old as it is. 

 

[Guest busdriver1]

6 hours ago, Irene Swaine said:

They aren't allowed to use revenue from other routes to cover loss making routes.

correct your diploma is paying off

6 hours ago, RollingJ said:

In theory - but how do you police that?

The traffic commissioners can and do investigate and have powers to compel operators to give information over

[RollingJ 2,054]

1 minute ago, busdriver1 said:

correct your diploma is paying off

The traffic commissioners can and do investigate and have powers to compel operators to give information over

Fair enough, but I bet it's a laborious undertaking.

[YorkieontheTyne 203]

7 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

Fair enough, but I bet it's a laborious undertaking.

It sure is. Once again I hark back to the de-regulation of bus services in 1986 by thatcher. Prior to that, the traffic commissioner had almost complete regulatory control over all bus services and operations.

Since that fateful date their powers have been much diminished, having no overall control about what companies ran where. They’ve been chasing their tail ever since trying to weed out the cowboy operators, suspect practices and general shady dealings. And there have been many.

Financial accountancy and best practice has been well down the list of things to do.

 

[FORE 12]

I felt it was a bit unlucky when the X57 service started - Covid time!

 

Hulleys kept it going for maybe a couple of years, and I used it for the Snake pass walks, & Snake (ex) Inn has 3 or 4 routes up Kinder from there.

 

I will use the 257 Sunday service for similar use.

[Irene Swaine 1,072]

In my opinion, I believe the rule about subsidising one route with a more successful route should be lifted. The only reason I can think of, as a former transport worker and business graduate, why this rule is in place is to prevent companies neglecting the less lucrative routes (cancelled services, poor quality buses etc). But we do have surveys and audits from Travel South Yorkshire know and people will make a racket if a service is being neglected.

 

A mixed funding pot makes sense for everyone, SYMCA benefit, as they'd only have to tender certain services anyway. The passenger benefits from having the security that the service will keep running and First/Stageoach/TM benefit from encouraging more people to use the bus network, instead of travelling by taxi/car/walking. Alas though, this is SYMCA we are talking about....

[Guest busdriver1]

15 minutes ago, Irene Swaine said:

In my opinion, I believe the rule about subsidising one route with a more successful route should be lifted. The only reason I can think of, as a former transport worker and business graduate, why this rule is in place is to prevent companies neglecting the less lucrative routes (cancelled services, poor quality buses etc). But we do have surveys and audits from Travel South Yorkshire know and people will make a racket if a service is being neglected.

 

A mixed funding pot makes sense for everyone, SYMCA benefit, as they'd only have to tender certain services anyway. The passenger benefits from having the security that the service will keep running and First/Stageoach/TM benefit from encouraging more people to use the bus network, instead of travelling by taxi/car/walking. Alas though, this is SYMCA we are talking about....

The reason the ruling was introduced was to prevent operators (stagecoach in particular) from operating loss making services to drive other operators off the road thus reducing competition and reducing passenger choice. 

3 hours ago, YorkieontheTyne said:

It sure is. Once again I hark back to the de-regulation of bus services in 1986 by thatcher. Prior to that, the traffic commissioner had almost complete regulatory control over all bus services and operations.

Since that fateful date their powers have been much diminished, having no overall control about what companies ran where. They’ve been chasing their tail ever since trying to weed out the cowboy operators, suspect practices and general shady dealings. And there have been many.

Financial accountancy and best practice has been well down the list of things to do.

 

Nit quite so. In the areas where there were ptes many of the TCs powers had been delegated to them. This was widely abused and was one of the main reasons they had their buses taken off them. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by busdriver1

[Irene Swaine 1,072]

4 minutes ago, busdriver1 said:

The reason the ruling was introduced was to prevent operators (stagecoach in oarticukar( from operating loss making services to drive other operators off the road. 

That sure makes sense. I don't know why I never thought of that. Stagecoach tend to pick up the routes that First cancel on, for example the 83a through Nethergeeen and Fulwood used to be a First 86. 

[Guest busdriver1]

3 minutes ago, Irene Swaine said:

That sure makes sense. I don't know why I never thought of that. Stagecoach tend to pick up the routes that First cancel on, for example the 83a through Nethergeeen and Fulwood used to be a First 86. 

Stagecoach have a sorry history of driving smaller operators into bankruptcy. The way the competition authorities work has to be changed because of their tactics. 

Stagecoach actually hold the record for referrals for anti competetive practices of ANY UK business. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by busdriver1