Compulsory Vaccination?

[Anna B 1,417]

28 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

I'm not a pro-suppressionist [good luck getting any of them to answer those questions].

1. it is not necessary, if fact it is totally counter productive in terms of overall human happiness, health and freedom.

2. from what I can see the madness is here for ever. The acceptance by the public of measures that are manifestly insane is stunning to witness, when you figure in their demands for more and more of it, I can only conclude we are lost. I've known for some time that the human race has domesticated itself, but the past 2 years with covid have been a quantum leap to that end.

No, masks should be scrapped today.

What will happen is exactly what is wanted by the bureaucrats 'running' these systems- anyone with intelligence/insight/understanding of the importance of liberty will be repelled from working in the NHS, leaving it manned by mask wearing sheep of low intelligence [good enough at rote learning and compliance to jump through the necessary hoops to pass the exams], low insight and certainly low appreciation of whatever little civil liberty remains.

IMO I think I'd be much more worried about the suppression of the right to protest than mask wearing.

That slipped through without media attention didn't it?

[top4718 838]

1 hour ago, RJRB said:

A bit busy to respond at the moment.

Some while back you said you had to get to bed because “some of us have to work”.

Must be another slow day on the building sites.

See you later.

No just in the office all day today, it happens.

[L00b 441]

3 hours ago, Chekhov said:

(…)

And, whilst I'm on, do you think masks should be mandated in hospitals forever ?

And do you think that will be pleasant for the NHS staff working there and encourage as many people as poss to want to work in hospitals ?

Yes or no ?

Just popping in for a neb at live threads, and this caught my attention.

 

Masks have been mandated in hospital theatres since forever. Likewise in some Far-Eastern countries with particularly dense populations. The sight of masked Japanese commuters in the Tokyo underground must be going back to the 60s at least.

 

Why do you think that has been, and remains, the case?

[Anna B 1,417]

28 minutes ago, L00b said:

Just popping in for a neb at live threads, and this caught my attention.

 

Masks have been mandated in hospital theatres since forever. Likewise in some Far-Eastern countries with particularly dense populations. The sight of masked Japanese commuters in the Tokyo underground must be going back to the 60s at least.

 

Why do you think that has been, and remains, the case?

Masks have been mandated in hospital Theatres since forever, but nowhere else.

Now everyone has to wear them, and they are detrimental to performance, particularly in a profession where communication is key. We all of us lip read to some extent, facial expression is also an important component of communication. There is a limit to the number of times you can ask a nurse/ care worker to repeat themselves. 

A lot of service users are elderly and easily confused by not hearing clearly what is being said. That applies to the workers too. Not to mention how unpleasant mask wearing all the time actually is.

 

Mask wearers in Tokyo underground chose to wear masks, they're not made to wear them. There's a big difference.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Anna B

[L00b 441]

4 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Masks have been mandated in hospital Theatres since forever, but nowhere else.

Now everyone has to wear them, and they are detrimental to performance, particularly in a profession where communication is key. We all of us lip read to some extent, facial expression is also an important component of communication. There is a limit to the number of times you can ask a nurse/ care worker to repeat themselves. 

A lot of service users are elderly and easily confused by not hearing clearly what is being said. That applies to the workers too. Not to mention how unpleasant mask wearing all the time actually is.

 

Mask wearers in Tokyo underground chose to wear masks, they're not made to wear them. There's a big difference.

You’ve not answered my question. It was the whole point of the post.

The answer would tell you why there is no difference, from a healthcare perspective, between surgeons, theatre nurses and Tokyo commuters wearing a mask.

 

Want to try again?

[Chekhov 488]

4 hours ago, hackey lad said:

I get the impression all you do is ask questions and don’t like the answers 

But you haven't really answered the questions.....

[top4718 838]

1 hour ago, L00b said:

You’ve not answered my question. It was the whole point of the post.

The answer would tell you why there is no difference, from a healthcare perspective, between surgeons, theatre nurses and Tokyo commuters wearing a mask.

 

Want to try again?

For a start surgeons don't wear them to prevent the transmission of microscopic viruses, any healthcare professional that needs to wear one to prevent transmission of a virus will at least wear an industry standard one not a throwaway thing like the ones currently being used by the majority, they will also have had face fit training and won't be using one that's been in a coat pocket and used multiple times.

[Chekhov 488]

1 hour ago, L00b said:

You’ve not answered my question. It was the whole point of the post.
The answer would tell you why there is no difference, from a healthcare perspective, between surgeons, theatre nurses and Tokyo commuters wearing a mask.

Want to try again?

This is rubbish. There are FFP grade masks worn correctly and changed regularly, and there are the type of masks which most people wear and generally wear incorrectly.

But just because surgeons wear masks, why should I ? Even if they work (and I strongly dispute they work that well, no evidence supports that) what was the point of us all being vaccinated if we have to keep wearing masks ?

4 hours ago, onewheeldave said:

I'm not a pro-suppressionist [good luck getting any of them to answer those questions].

1. it is not necessary, if fact it is totally counter productive in terms of overall human happiness, health and freedom.

2. from what I can see the madness is here for ever. The acceptance by the public of measures that are manifestly insane is stunning to witness, when you figure in their demands for more and more of it, I can only conclude we are lost. I've known for some time that the human race has domesticated itself, but the past 2 years with covid have been a quantum leap to that end.

No, masks should be scrapped today.

What will happen is exactly what is wanted by the bureaucrats 'running' these systems- anyone with intelligence/insight/understanding of the importance of liberty will be repelled from working in the NHS, leaving it manned by mask wearing sheep of low intelligence [good enough at rote learning and compliance to jump through the necessary hoops to pass the exams], low insight and certainly low appreciation of whatever little civil liberty remains.

You are absolutely correct, not just what you say about masks and the other suppression measures, but also the fact suppressionists never answer any awkward questions

Edited December 7, 2021 by Chekhov

[Chekhov 488]

2 hours ago, L00b said:

>> will peopel working in hospitals have to wear masks forever?<<

Masks have been mandated in hospital theatres since forever. 

That is for highly paid people who have to wear them for a relatively short time.

I'm talking about a receptionist, if it was 50/50 if someone had a chance of a job somewhere they did not have to wear a mask or in a hospital where they did, what do you think most people would choose ?

Or someone who wanted to be a physio, and were weighing up do I want to work in a hospital or clinic where I have to wear a mask all day for the whole of my career, or in a sports club or gym where I don't ?

People who work in the NHS are human, my wife works in the NHS and she doesn't like wearing a mask, because, err, that's the normal view. Nobody likes wearing masks, it's a matter of how much people dislike them.

1 hour ago, L00b said:

The answer would tell you why there is no difference, from a healthcare perspective, between surgeons, theatre nurses and Tokyo commuters wearing a mask.

I haven't been to Japan, but I have been to China and Taiwan.  Maybe 20% were wearing masks. I accept it will be much higher now, but you are implying it was always like that, and it was not, that is a common piece of misinformation. I have even heard it on the BBC.

[Carbuncle 0]

2 hours ago, top4718 said:

For a start surgeons don't wear them to prevent the transmission of microscopic viruses, any healthcare professional that needs to wear one to prevent transmission of a virus will at least wear an industry standard one not a throwaway thing like the ones currently being used by the majority, they will also have had face fit training and won't be using one that's been in a coat pocket and used multiple times.

You have repeatedly indicated that you have expertise in this area and continually demonstrated that you do not.

 

1. Surgical masks are worn to prevent/ reduce movement of pathogens from the surgeon to the patient.

2. The masks that surgeons and theatre staff (mostly) wear to operate do not require fit testing or fit checking because they are not expected to  form an air tight seal to the face.

3. Surgical masks are cheap and readily available.

 

You got all these things wrong ... because you do not in fact understand masks or how they work despite all your claims.

2 hours ago, Chekhov said:

There are FFP grade masks worn correctly and changed regularly, and there are the type of masks which most people wear and generally wear incorrectly.

The FFP2 and FFP3 are standards are for masks warn as personal protective equipment (PPE). Surgeons generally do not wear masks as a form of PPE since the risk which is being mitigated is not to the surgeon but to the person being operated on. The FFP2 and FFP3 standards offer no guarantees as to protection for anybody other than the wearer. Many (most?) FFP2s and FFP3s use a valve on the exhale. Ones exhale is very moist and it is better not to feed this through a filter if it is not required.

 

Why do you as covid sceptics so frequently repeat misinformation?

Edited December 7, 2021 by Carbuncle

[Carbuncle 0]

 

- duplicate removed-

Edited December 7, 2021 by Carbuncle

[hackey lad 3,992]

41 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

But you haven't really answered the questions.....

I answered the questions you asked . If they were not the answers you wanted to hear , soz