Coffee Machines

[apelike 10]

5 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

But boiling water will vaporise some of the more volatile components of instant coffee.

The trouble with that is people keep stating in parrott fashion that is what happens but when asked cannot say what those supposed volatile components are or how heat affects them.

 

5 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

It will dissolve others and it will likely trigger reactions between some of the compounds.

It will dissolve all and thats why its called soluble coffee.

 

5 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

So the end product isn’t really locked in at all.

Yes it is it just takes water to release them fully as they have already been extracted unlike brewing from coffee beans.

 

5 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

That’s why making instant coffee with cool/cold water makes an even more unpleasant drink than making it with hot/boiling water

Try using cold water on ground coffee!

[Pettytom 1]

28 minutes ago, apelike said:

The trouble with that is people keep stating in parrott fashion that is what happens but when asked cannot say what those supposed volatile components are or how heat affects them.

 

 

I’ve just told you how heat affects them.

 

Many of the molecules that make up the flavour of ground coffee are either aldehydes, ketones,  esters, or organic acids. There are quite a lot of them though and their interactions are pretty complex.

 

That’s why I referred you to the RSC website. If you register, you’ll get free access to a couple of interesting papers.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Pettytom

[Obelix 11]

1 hour ago, apelike said:

Am I.... 

 

That depends on what type of percolator is used as the stove top ones can easily exceed that, as said some can be on a rolling boil for tens of minutes.

 

What has steam distillation got to do with it? BTW I do understand it as I have also done some in a lab and at home, I also understand the difference between steam and water vapour that some seem to mix up.

I can't help you using a percolator incorrectly so stop with the goalpost moving.

 

 

As for not understanding what steam distillation has to do with it I'm fairly sure your experience in steam distillation is mere fancy on your part or you are deliberately trolling. Either way you are as usual not debating in good faith

1 hour ago, Pettytom said:

I’ve just told you how heat affects them.

 

Many of the molecules that make up the flavour of ground coffee are either aldehydes, ketones,  esters, or organic acids. There are quite a lot of them though and their interactions are pretty complex.

 

That’s why I referred you to the RSC website. If you register, you’ll get free access to a couple of interesting papers.

You assume he knows what the RSC is and cares to look.

[davyboy 19]

9 hours ago, Obelix said:

 

 

 

You assume he knows what the RSC is and cares to look.

What has the Royal Shakespeare Company to do with making coffee?

[apelike 10]

15 hours ago, Pettytom said:

I’ve just told you how heat affects them.

 

Many of the molecules that make up the flavour of ground coffee are either aldehydes, ketones,  esters, or organic acids. There are quite a lot of them though and their interactions are pretty complex.

No you have stated that heat affects them but not how. I know there are a lot of compounds/molecules that make up the aroma and taste and also know that a lot of them are can be changed due to high heat above the boiling point of water but so far nobody can tell me what ones are changed by the heat or how.  Some are not changed at all as it takes very high temperatures above boiling point to affect them. As said, people are just repeating parrot fashion what they have heard others state without questioning it. What I am doing is questioning that attitude.

 

15 hours ago, Pettytom said:

That’s why I referred you to the RSC website. If you register, you’ll get free access to a couple of interesting papers.

But being so compex a matter a few papers will not do, and BTW I have read several and stand by what I have said above. It takes high pressure water at a temp of 175C to make instant soluble coffee so something here is not right as at that temp according to some the coffee should turn out very bitter.

[Pettytom 1]

17 minutes ago, apelike said:

No you have stated that heat affects them but not how. I know there are a lot of compounds/molecules that make up the aroma and taste and also know that a lot of them are can be changed due to high heat above the boiling point of water but so far nobody can tell me what ones are changed by the heat or how.  Some are not changed at all as it takes very high temperatures above boiling point to affect them. As said, people are just repeating parrot fashion what they have heard others state without questioning it. What I am doing is questioning that attitude.

 

But being so compex a matter a few papers will not do, and BTW I have read several and stand by what I have said above. It takes high pressure water at a temp of 175C to make instant soluble coffee so something here is not right as at that temp according to some the coffee should turn out very bitter.

Maybe if you asked a specific question about a specific reaction, you’d get a better answer.

 

At the moment, you are being very general and that is resulting in generalised replies.

[Obelix 11]

1 hour ago, apelike said:

But being so compex a matter a few papers will not do, and BTW I have read several and stand by what I have said above. It takes high pressure water at a temp of 175C to make instant soluble coffee so something here is not right as at that temp according to some the coffee should turn out very bitter.

It does?

 

You mean spray air drying or vacuum expansion freeze drying are not used? Or are you thinking of supercritical decaffination methods that do involve taste changes?

[Pettytom 1]

11 minutes ago, Obelix said:

It does?

 

You mean spray air drying or vacuum expansion freeze drying are not used? Or are you thinking of supercritical decaffination methods that do involve taste changes?

A brief spell of googling reveals that Carte Noir Classique is made by brewing coffee in the normal way and then freeze drying.

 

Therefore there is no mystery about the retention of flavour, or the lack of bitter compounds.

 

So, Apey, you can rest easy now. No high temperatures are used in the production of your instant coffee.

[Obelix 11]

Freeze, sublimation drying, spray, elevated spray dry are the methods used. I've tried all of them. Sadly vacuum sublimation despite being excellent does take off some of the flavours that can be condensed out and returned but it's a PITA.

 

I dont know any method of using hot water at 175C (which would involve very high pressures to be feasible - at least 3MPa to be safe). I also cannot see why it would be needed since you want to remove water not add it...

[Padders 2,874]

Some proper coffee connoisseurs on this topic, I'm afraid you have me completely bewildered, it's a bit like Quantum physics of coffee.

I have just had a sachet of Nescafe original unsweetened taste 2 in 1 (6 for a pound) beautiful.

[Pettytom 1]

4 hours ago, Padders said:

Some proper coffee connoisseurs on this topic, I'm afraid you have me completely bewildered, it's a bit like Quantum physics of coffee.

I have just had a sachet of Nescafe original unsweetened taste 2 in 1 (6 for a pound) beautiful.

But, did you use boiling water, Padders?😀

[Padders 2,874]

5 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

But, did you use boiling water, Padders?😀

Actually it says on the packet... use hot but not boiling water...so I boil the kettle, leave for about 30 secs ,then pour. taste right enough for me.