Allegations of rape: Why are police asking victims for their phones?

[Cyclone 10]

Can you actually quote me there?  To save me having to go and find the context that you've no doubt removed.

[Cyclone 10]

In case you're interested in how actual rape victims feel about the idea

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/29/why-i-refused-to-give-police-my-phone-one-survivors-story?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2P46c98wHRznhG3RdjQF_Q_cLoNF2wokxCgE5wxIwz6XStdoml1WrCfzo

[Guest makapaka]

13 hours ago, Cyclone said:

If you change from arguing one side to arguing the other then you have flipped your argument.  It's nothing to do with consideration, you've changed the point you are arguing.

 

That's fine if you've changed your mind of course, but be clear, do you think that the victim should always hand over their phone, or do you now not think that?  You can't think both.

There are very few circumstances where the phone of the victim of a rape will help.  This entire thing is about disproving the story of the victim.

Here you go.

Edited May 2, 2019 by makapaka

[Guest makapaka]

2 hours ago, Cyclone said:

In case you're interested in how actual rape victims feel about the idea

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/29/why-i-refused-to-give-police-my-phone-one-survivors-story?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2P46c98wHRznhG3RdjQF_Q_cLoNF2wokxCgE5wxIwz6XStdoml1WrCfzo

That’s a really sad story.

 

theres a good debate going on question time at the moment where the general consensus seems to be that it’s beneficial to seeking convictions by giving over the phone and perhaps its more a matter of properly explaining to rape victims why having it is beneficial to the prosecution - I can’t see why anyone would argue with that.

[Cyclone 10]

Unless there's evidence of the rape somehow contained on the phone it can only be of any use to the defence.

19 hours ago, makapaka said:

Well you kind of do - because earlier you said;

 

"This entire thing is about disproving the story of the victim."

 

So presumably this forms part of the reason why you are against this.

 

You're also exagerrating again - people aren't being threatened.

Right, yes, I see you carefully avoided answering the question.  It's quite clearly a threat to tell someone who is reporting a rape that if they don't hand over their phone it won't be investigated and no charges will be brought.

 

I still don't need to speculate why though and I won't.

 

It's quite clear that the victims phone is highly unlikely to be of any use in proving that a rape took place, unless they happened to have videoed their own attack.

[Guest makapaka]

1 hour ago, Cyclone said:

Unless there's evidence of the rape somehow contained on the phone it can only be of any use to the defence.

Right, yes, I see you carefully avoided answering the question.  It's quite clearly a threat to tell someone who is reporting a rape that if they don't hand over their phone it won't be investigated and no charges will be brought.

 

I still don't need to speculate why though and I won't.

 

It's quite clear that the victims phone is highly unlikely to be of any use in proving that a rape took place, unless they happened to have videoed their own attack.

Sorry which question?

 

you’re exaggerating again. No one is threatening them. 

 

You dont wish to speculate? Why cant you just explain why you think this is all about disproving the story of the victim?

 

there are also recent instances where the persons mobile phone has proven whether a rape took place .

 

I don’t know how you consider yourself qualified to speculate on the merits of mobile phone content in proving any  individual rape case either to be honest.

[francypants 441]

Unless you've been professionally trained ( as in police, solicitor etc ) none of us are in a position to say what information can be gleaned from examining a person's phone.  Therefore to state that a person's phone is highly unlikely to be of any use is nonsense.

[Guest makapaka]

18 minutes ago, francypants said:

Unless you've been professionally trained ( as in police, solicitor etc ) none of us are in a position to say what information can be gleaned from examining a person's phone.  Therefore to state that a person's phone is highly unlikely to be of any use is nonsense.

How could anyone know - it’s just total speculation from someone saying they won’t speculate....

[altus 540]

A new twist in this issue - Don’t seize rape complainants' mobiles, say police bosses:

Britain’s police commissioners are calling on the Crown Prosecution Service to withdraw a controversial new form issued to rape complainants telling them to hand over their mobile phones or risk seeing their case discontinued.

The Association of Police and Crime Commissioners (APCC), whose members include a commissioner who is a rape victim, told the Observer that use of the form would result in a loss of confidence in the police, the CPS and the criminal justice system.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

51 minutes ago, altus said:

A new twist in this issue - Don’t seize rape complainants' mobiles, say police bosses:

That comes as no surprise.

 

And as I said previously, coercing someone who has not been accused of any crime  to allow their phone to be examined by a stranger is likely to fall foul of the European Court of Human Rights.

[Cyclone 10]

On 03/05/2019 at 09:05, francypants said:

Unless you've been professionally trained ( as in police, solicitor etc ) none of us are in a position to say what information can be gleaned from examining a person's phone.  Therefore to state that a person's phone is highly unlikely to be of any use is nonsense.

Seriously?  What training about the data on mobile phones do you think that solicitors get?

 

If you can't think about a crime and a phone and logically deduce whether there's likely to be any evidence then, well, I don't want to insult you, but it's not a difficult topic is it.

On 03/05/2019 at 09:02, makapaka said:

Sorry which question?

 

you’re exaggerating again. No one is threatening them. 

 

You dont wish to speculate? Why cant you just explain why you think this is all about disproving the story of the victim?

 

there are also recent instances where the persons mobile phone has proven whether a rape took place .

 

I don’t know how you consider yourself qualified to speculate on the merits of mobile phone content in proving any  individual rape case either to be honest.

The question asked several times.

 

"Are you denying that it's coercive?"

 

You appear to be, by inference.  But instead of answering you just reply with questions that you apparently expect me to answer.

[Guest makapaka]

1 hour ago, Cyclone said:

Seriously?  What training about the data on mobile phones do you think that solicitors get?

 

If you can't think about a crime and a phone and logically deduce whether there's likely to be any evidence then, well, I don't want to insult you, but it's not a difficult topic is it.

The question asked several times.

 

"Are you denying that it's coercive?"

 

You appear to be, by inference.  But instead of answering you just reply with questions that you apparently expect me to answer.

Yes I don’t think it’s coercive I thought we’d been through that. In fact I’ve said twice people aren’t being threatened. 

 

Why is this all about disproving the victim? Who is trying to assist rapists? 

Edited May 6, 2019 by makapaka