Climate Change thread

[Chekhov 488]

Well it had to come, but now academics are suggesting that stuff such as petrol, houshold energy, meat and flights should be rationed in order to help with "the fight against climate change" : The Times 20 Feb 2023 "How to fix Global warming ? Bring back rationing."

Even worse they are saying the "rations" shoudl be non transferable, negating the market's efficiencies still further. You will not go on that holiday, no matter how much money you are prepared to spend on it...

 

Let's be clear, if the government want to force people to behave in a certain way they only have linmited options, they either increase the tax on it or ban it altogether, the use rationing is almost never used outside of wartime. Using the tax system is the most effcient way but, of course, that then means thr "rich" don't have to alter their behaviour as much as "the poor". And thety are asking su to MASSIVELY alter our lives, in a way that will make Brexit look like a walk in the park, in fact a mere "amble" would be more accurate.

And yet, unlike Brexit, they have never put any of this to a vote, either directly or with "Nett Zero" a s amajor plank of teh parties poolicies and with a mainstream alternative available to vote for. I am prepared to bet anyone on here £100 that the great majority of people in this country do not want all these draconian "Nett Zero" edicts.

This is all profoundly undemocratic.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Chekhov

[Chekhov 488]

On 05/02/2023 at 23:15, El Cid said:

Every reputable scientific organisation in the world agrees that climate change is real and is being driven by human activities, primarily emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases. Yet two of the UK’s newest television stations, GB News and Talk TV(Brian Catt), which target viewers at the fringes of the political spectrum, are misleading their audiences by promoting climate change denial. And they have now found a new champion, Brian Catt, to join Donald Trump and other extremists in publicly dismissing almost 200 years of accumulated scientific evidence.

You are forgetting about points two and three...

 

2 - Can we do anything about climate change (and I mean within the realms of what it is reasonable to expect teh population to endure) ?

 

3 - Do the population actually want to spend Trillions of pounds trying (possibly unsuccessfully) to reduce global temparatures when, in thsi country at least, they may prefer to spend "only" Billions on more flood defences ?

[ads36 219]

18 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

You are forgetting about points two and three...

 

2 - Can we do anything about climate change (and I mean within the realms of what it is reasonable to expect teh population to endure) ?

Yes.

 

Climate change isn't a binary situation. there are degrees (literally) of change.

 

ranging from : +1°C : this is roughly where we are now.

 

to : +4°C (or more!) : literally the extinction of most life on earth, including humans.

 

we still get to choose which future we want.

 

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

3 - Do the population actually want to spend Trillions of pounds trying (possibly unsuccessfully) to reduce global temparatures when, in thsi country at least, they may prefer to spend "only" Billions on more flood defences ?

Acting on climate will save us money.

 

More public transport, better insulated houses, more renewable power, regrowing our lost forests, restoring our wetlands.

 

all of those things are money-savers. And we should be doing them *anyway*.

[Chekhov 488]

1 hour ago, ads36 said:

Yes.

Climate change isn't a binary situation. there are degrees (literally) of change.

ranging from : +1°C : this is roughly where we are now.

to : +4°C (or more!) : literally the extinction of most life on earth, including humans.

we still get to choose which future we want.

I do not believe that for one second.

 

>>we still get to choose which future we want<<

 

Except we, teh greta British public don't get a choice do we ?

All major parties are supporting this exterme Nett Zero dogma (just like they did with Covid suppression BTW, and look how that turned out), so what choice does anyone have in a GE ? It does, at least, mean they cannot sy they have a mandate for it.

[trastrick 866]

1 hour ago, ads36 said:

Yes.

 

Climate change isn't a binary situation. there are degrees (literally) of change.

 

ranging from : +1°C : this is roughly where we are now.

 

to : +4°C (or more!) : literally the extinction of most life on earth, including humans.

 

we still get to choose which future we want.

 

 

 

 

Acting on climate will save us money.

 

More public transport, better insulated houses, more renewable power, regrowing our lost forests, restoring our wetlands.

 

all of those things are money-savers. And we should be doing them *anyway*.

So it is very important to know how much the Earth is actually heating, before the $trillions are spent, right?

 

Without "anomalies" "nth warmest" , arbitrary averages etc.

 

Can anybody tell me the actual Earth's average temperature for each year of the NOAA/NASA satellite record since 1979. (the last 44 years)?

 

Anybody?

[Chekhov 488]

1 hour ago, ads36 said:

Acting on climate will save us money.

More public transport, better insulated houses, more renewable power, regrowing our lost forests, restoring our wetlands.

all of those things are money-savers. And we should be doing them *anyway*.

That depends on how far they force us to go.

 

Who would argue aganst better insulated homes ? Just so long as they still have the same number of windows and don't suffer from damp due to lack of ventilation, esp if those being canvassed for their opinion aren't paying for it.

But we've done most of the easy insulation, making houses without wall cavities more energy efficient starts getting veruy expensive and very messy

 

More renewable power ? So long as its reliable and economical who coudl object, but what happens when the wind stops blowing and/or its cloudy or dark ?

 

 Regrowing our lost forests ? again, another Motherhood and Apple Pie policy.

 

What you haven't mentioned is all the rest of the stuff they'll demand, like no more internal combustion vehicles, no more gas boilers and huge taxes on power / transport / flights, or even worse, it's actually rationed !

 

[ads36 219]

7 minutes ago, trastrick said:

So it is very important to know how much the Earth is actually heating, before the $trillions are spent, right?

Actually No.

 

because the things we need to do to act on climate change, are generally things we need to be doing anyway.

 

insulating houses, better public transport, more renewable energy, restoring our natural environment (forests, wetlands, etc.), etc.

 

3 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

But we've done most of the easy insulation

we *really* haven't.

 

UK houses are the worst insulated in Europe.

 

we've barely even tried.

Edited February 22, 2023 by ads36

[trastrick 866]

6 minutes ago, ads36 said:

Actually No.

 

because the things we need to do to act on climate change, are generally things we need to be doing anyway.

 

insulating houses, better public transport, more renewable energy, restoring our natural environment (forests, wetlands, etc.), etc.

Hmmmmm,  OK!  

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by trastrick

[Chekhov 488]

3 minutes ago, ads36 said:

>>Chekhov said:
But we've done most of the easy insulation<<

 

we *really* haven't.

UK houses are the worst insulated in Europe.

we've barely even tried.

Are you saying we are not into teh law of dimishing returns ? It;d be the first time ever if that were not the case. Surely it's obvious all the easy stuff will have been done first.

 

>>UK houses are the worst insulated in Europe.<<

 

I can remember listening to an article on R4 on that infamous quote, and apparentlyit doesn't actually mean what most people think it means. Soem of the factors were that we have fewer people living in flats / tower blocks which are naturaklly better insulated as they have fewer external walls or roofs. Also, because GB was not invaded during the war, nor bombed that much (contarty to what people seem to think) the UK housing stock is amongst the oldest in Europe. Thus insulating that "to modern standards" is uneconomic or even impossible.

It is NOT the case there is a high proportion of houses out there where we just have to insulate the lofts, insulate the wall cavities and install double glazing (the vast majority of houses, where it is practicable, already have the latter anyway).

[trastrick 866]

We are doing what we can afford to do as always. Cleaner air, water and feeding the World, 

 

We always did,  it’s called human progress!

 

(Long before the charlatans like AlGore, Goddess Greta, Kerry and the rest got rich off it)

 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by trastrick

[Anna B 1,417]

According to Stephen Fry, the earth was over10 degrees warmer during the Jurasic period, with no ice caps at the North or South pole. 

We've also had ice ages and a 'snowball earth' period when the earth was entirely covered in ice and snow. 

So extremes of temperature changes without any human intervention.

 

We never hear about sun spots these days either.

[Organgrinder 1,946]

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

Are you saying we are not into teh law of dimishing returns ? It;d be the first time ever if that were not the case. Surely it's obvious all the easy stuff will have been done first.

 

>>UK houses are the worst insulated in Europe.<<

 

I can remember listening to an article on R4 on that infamous quote, and apparentlyit doesn't actually mean what most people think it means. Soem of the factors were that we have fewer people living in flats / tower blocks which are naturaklly better insulated as they have fewer external walls or roofs. Also, because GB was not invaded during the war, nor bombed that much (contarty to what people seem to think) the UK housing stock is amongst the oldest in Europe. Thus insulating that "to modern standards" is uneconomic or even impossible.

It is NOT the case there is a high proportion of houses out there where we just have to insulate the lofts, insulate the wall cavities and install double glazing (the vast majority of houses, where it is practicable, already have the latter anyway).

I would advise you to edit the bit in bold unless you want to look an even bigger idiot than usual.

I lived through the war and remember all the bombed houses in our district that we played on.

I remember the state of Exchange St, High St, Angel St and The Moor and I have a large collection of photographs to back me up.

We were lucky that they were not good at bombing our industry but housing and commercial premises WERE badly hit.