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Spearmint Rhino has licence renewed

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They don't do it because of strip clubs.

 

They don't do it solely because of strip clubs.

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Being treated as fully human and not just objects for men to leer at, ogle and masturbate over would be a start.

 

It might surprise you but some women actually do like being ogled at, moreso if they're getting paid for it. I'm not sure this means they'd be treated any less human, whatever you mean by that.

 

Where did you get the bit about masturbating from?

 

Also, there's many jobs where people are treated as objects of one kind or another (not necessarily sexual), every day. Should we abolish all jobs?

 

---------- Post added 30-06-2018 at 14:50 ----------

 

If men in our society were judged primarily on their physical appearance, then yes, it would be degrading to them. As men clearly aren't judged by that, then no, it's not degrading.

 

Men ARE judged by their appearance, not to the extent that women are but it still happens, every day.

From the shabby looking guy on the tram who nobody wants to sit next to, to the business exec who missed out on a job because he was shorter and balder, with yellower teeth than the other guy.

Edited by RootsBooster

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A bit of an update. Seems they are trying to reverse it. They have taken Sheffield Council to judicial review and won. Something about not considering the area.

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They don't do it solely because of strip clubs.

 

Why don't you try to address my other, far more important point?

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Why don't you try to address my other, far more important point?

 

They haven’t really answered any of the points on the whole thread.

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A bit of an update. Seems they are trying to reverse it. They have taken Sheffield Council to judicial review and won. Something about not considering the area.

 

Reversing a decision to have unlimited clubs back down to 2 will make no difference to the 2 already running.. :)

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They don't do it because of strip clubs.

 

But going back to a point I've made several times, if you managed to somehow legislate against strip clubs and close them all down, you would force it underground. It wouldn't disappear, but it would become much more dangerous for the girls.

This argument alone is sufficient reason to not close down strip clubs. It's also why prostitution is legal, and it's why it should be further legalised (brothels, etc.).

The aim should be to make everyone working in the sex industry as safe as is possible, and you can't do that by forcing it all to be hidden from the authorities because it's illegal.

 

I'm not sure that would happen. Part of the problem of having clubs such as Spearmint Rhino in Sheffield city centre is that it normalises strip clubs and the commodification of women. Makes it seem a legitimate part of a night out. And further reinforces the divide between the sexes. If they weren't there, far fewer would attend. Strip clubs have been banned in Iceland since 2010 and there is no evidence that it has forced clubs underground or caused danger to women.

 

And who polices the legitimate strip clubs anyway? You never see bobbies on the beat anymore and seemingly have a hard time getting a response in person to a 999 call, so I hardly think the police have got time to attend Spearmint Rhino to check that none of the women are underage or being trafficked or coerced.

 

---------- Post added 01-07-2018 at 19:32 ----------

 

It’s not clear - are you saying the women “think” they are in control but not really?

 

That would suggest a lack of awareness and intelligence wouldn’t it? You think they aren’t capable of understanding they’re being exploited?

 

That’s a bit wrong isn’t it?

 

I wouldn't have thought many of them would have studied Marxist theory of false consciousness, no, but I imagine most of the women are young and will have less life experience. I wonder how many of them will look back in the future and regret what they did?

 

---------- Post added 01-07-2018 at 19:35 ----------

 

Without my employer I wouldn't have a job. But without my choosing to work they wouldn't have an employee.

Now, they don't pay me to strip off and dance around naked, but they do pay me in exchange for my time and labour. It's not that dissimilar tbh.

 

 

I would argue that it's very different! Last time I looked my job description didn't involve me displaying my vulva to strangers in return for payment... how can that be similar to a standard job? Even industries where people use their bodies, such as modelling (which isn't without its problems) doesn't generally require the participants to use their bodies in a highly sexualised manner.

 

---------- Post added 01-07-2018 at 19:37 ----------

 

Once again the ladies that dance at Spearmint Rhino aren’t paid by the Spearmint Rhino, they’re self-employed and pay to dance there as well as giving a percentage of each dance to the club.

 

Indeed, and no doubt the club owners are men. More incentive for the women to say they enjoy working there, and to do things they feel less comfortable with.

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Reversing a decision to have unlimited clubs back down to 2 will make no difference to the 2 already running.. :)

 

Its not doing that though its meaning that they have to consider other factors when making a decison to grant. Zero Option who are campaigning want no lapdancing clubs. Also I dont think restricting the number will stand up in court. Hence you either have unlimited number or none.

 

I personally think the moment they ban them the industry will go underground using modern slaves. Hence be far worse than the regulated industry where the girls are protected exists today.

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Again im seeing a lot of views on here from people claiming to comment on the venue who have never been or believe that their view point is more important and that they know what is better for the people that work there than the people themselves.

 

Make an informed decision not just based on your beliefs. Don't say the "poor girls" are misguided or dilusional. They are the ones choosing to make the decision to work there. Same as people who work as models of both sexes (are they commodifying themselves as they are selected based on a physical appearance that the advertiser or fashion agency request), Same as MEN who perform in dance shows.

 

Agent C - Genuine question, do you believe that the likes of the Dreamboys, Magic Mike, etc are degrading to the male public as they are only judged on their physical appearance and that the women (and men) who go to watch them. Its the same (and indeed as i posted earlier, more physical as they actually allow the crowd to touch them unlike a lap dance venue)so i'm interested as to your views.

 

First off there is plenty of ways to find out what happens inside a strip club without attending one - Google for example.

 

I have addressed the point about models - it's not a sexualised industry and you can't use it as a comparison.

 

There are far fewer male strip groups and you will not find a male strip club in every town like you do with female ones. The male strip group environment is certainly not one I would choose to inhabit but seems to be, from people I have spoken to, one where humour is the overriding factor rather than sexuality. Perhaps women just don't find the sight of a flaccid male member a turn on as much as the other way around? In any case currently we live in a society where men have power, sexual and otherwise, over women, so I don't see how you can make a comparison.

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In any case currently we live in a society where men have power, sexual and otherwise, over women, so I don't see how you can make a comparison.

 

There seem to be quite a few people on this thread who don't seem to accept that, even though it's 2018.

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I would argue that it's very different! Last time I looked my job description didn't involve me displaying my vulva to strangers in return for payment... how can that be similar to a standard job? Even industries where people use their bodies, such as modelling (which isn't without its problems) doesn't generally require the participants to use their bodies in a highly sexualised manner

 

Of course it differs in the specifics, your job description probably doesn't say that you will pilot a plane, or swing from a trapeze or dig a ditch or guard prisoners or be shot at. But there are jobs where these things are the norm, being different in the details doesn't make it fundamentally different, an exchange of service for money.

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Strip clubs have been banned in Iceland since 2010 and there is no evidence that it has forced clubs underground or caused danger to women.

 

With a population of less than 350,000 compared to 65 million its not really saying much though is it.

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