Equal pay for women wasn't supposed to be like this

[Anna B]

It is straightforward enough. Women tend to be pleasers, peacemakers, arbitrators, not fighters. I trust that you recognise that characteristic tends to be with women more than men. It's why women tend to be poor negotiators.

 

You might feel that you are an excellent negotiator, but you would not be typical. I, as a man, have been known to say that I'd set the deal on fire before giving it to somebody who didn't deserve it.

 

They should get paid the same if they are doing the same job with the same expertise and experience. I could not be more certain about this.

 

In non skilled roles this is an easy thing to achieve. Press button, make widget, repeat.

 

In craft roles it may be equally easy after some time topping up with the latest techniques and requirements.

 

In professional roles women often hit the buffer because many, if not most professional women do not choose the necessary career path, prioritising family life over time at work. Even if they return they will simply find that many men have pulled ahead of them and have better paying roles. It's not their sex holding them back, it's their time away from the coalface.

The entertainment and sport business is a bit different for the reasons already discussed - it's all about bums on seats.

 

If equality was working properly, Family life should be an equal priority for the man. The home / caring role should be equally shared, so that the woman wouldn't have to 'prioritise' it. Too many men 'help' their wives with children / home care rather than take equal responsibility for it.

 

In reality a lot of men (most?) have no idea what women do in terms of planning and organising home life to run smoothly at an adequate level of comfort, (especially when juggling it with a full time job,) because they've never had to do it. This is not a rant against men, it's just generally the way it is. You could argue that it's nature for women to be the carers, though many might not.

 

The only thing that would give true equality would be for this 'woman's' home role to be a well paid career choice, and that's never going to happen is it?

[ENG601PM]

If equality was working properly, Family life should be an equal priority for the man. The home / caring role should be equally shared, so that the woman wouldn't have to 'prioritise' it. Too many men 'help' their wives with children / home care rather than take equal responsibility for it.

 

In reality a lot of men (most?) have no idea what women do in terms of planning and organising home life to run smoothly at an adequate level of comfort, (especially when juggling it with a full time job,) because they've never had to do it. This is not a rant against men, it's just generally the way it is. You could argue that it's nature for women to be the carers, though many might not.

 

The only thing that would give true equality would be for this 'woman's' home role to be a well paid career choice, and that's never going to happen is it?

 

Prototypical third wave feminist guff. It's easily ignored and that's why too many women are still being unappreciated.

[Anna B]

Prototypical third wave feminist guff. It's easily ignored and that's why too many women are still being unappreciated.

 

Sorry, but you'll have to explain. Why is that why 'too many women are still being unappreciated?'

Edited January 29, 2018 by Anna B

[ENG601PM]

Sorry, but you'll have to explain. Why is that why too many women are still being unappreciated?

 

Did you read what I wrote earlier about women being bad negotiators? Women fall back on what they would like men to do, not what they can do themselves. Your post was all about men changing.

 

Why the heck should men change to be more like women? Why don't women make the effort to be more like men if they want what men have?

 

Aha! Gotcha! Negotiation skillz!

[Chelle-82]

Did you read what I wrote earlier about women being bad negotiators? Women fall back on what they would like men to do, not what they can do themselves. Your post was all about men changing.

 

Why the heck should men change to be more like women? Why don't women make the effort to be more like men if they want what men have?

 

Aha! Gotcha! Negotiation skillz!

 

Because....

 

Women who seek to be equal to men lack ambition

 

I think what Anna is saying, if men helped out a bit more in the house, with the kids etc then it would give equal time for both parents to be able to follow their careers..

 

---------- Post added 29-01-2018 at 15:08 ----------

 

More and more women are choosing careers over having children, or having them rather late so they can persue their career..

 

I think we can all agree women have the most to sacrifice when it comes to making their choices. All they ask is to be paid the same as their male counterparts.

[altus]

Did you read what I wrote earlier about women being bad negotiators? Women fall back on what they would like men to do, not what they can do themselves. Your post was all about men changing.

 

Why the heck should men change to be more like women? Why don't women make the effort to be more like men if they want what men have?

 

Aha! Gotcha! Negotiation skillz!

Who's going to organise the home/look after the kids if both men and women prioritise their careers?

 

Every time a man moans about women getting custody of the kids during a divorce think of this - it's the stereotyping of men's/women's roles that causes judges to give the custody to women. That's not going to change until men take the same responsibility for child rearing instead of leaving it to the woman.

[ENG601PM]

Because....

 

Women who seek to be equal to men lack ambition

 

I think what Anna is saying, if men helped out a bit more in the house, with the kids etc then it would give equal time for both parents to be able to follow their careers..

 

---------- Post added 29-01-2018 at 15:08 ----------

 

More and more women are choosing careers over having children, or having them rather late so they can persue their career..

 

I think we can all agree women have the most to sacrifice when it comes to making their choices. All they ask is to be paid the same as their male counterparts.

 

I do agree with you. Women (as a group) have biology, evolution, and time against them. There's no changing it unless they decide not to have mate and have children and that's not a preferred choice for women (as a group)

 

Personally I see nothing wrong with women deciding to be homemakers instead of captains of industry. It's a damned sight less stressful and a better choice in reality.

[willman]

Who's going to organise the home/look after the kids if both men and women prioritise their careers?

 

Every time a man moans about women getting custody of the kids during a divorce think of this - it's the stereotyping of men's/women's roles that causes judges to give the custody to women. That's not going to change until men take the same responsibility for child rearing instead of leaving it to the woman.

 

Or until society allows them.

[altus]

Or until society allows them.

How do you think society isn't allowing them to?

[willman]

How do you think society isn't allowing them to?

 

Socially its "akward" i wouldn't say not accepted to be a house husband, to take 6 months off paid after the birth,to claim benefits to be at home (after all you'd likely be quitting a job to do so).

Changing rooms and feeding stations are almost non existent in male toilets.

Then there's the feminazis and breastfeeding - can't breastfeed if the mums at work.

And then yet to come the social meetings where almost everyone else thinks it inappropriate for a male to take a child to the toilets.