Martial Arts Instructors

[Davemantis]

When I have messed about on the ground I have used Chin Na with pressure points in it, it works fine but I think I will always hit first.

 

I have seen A lad from china doing chi sau with a English lad and the lad got a little to heavy and stupid so the Chinese Lad turned him round hit him on the back in a couple of places and that stopped him, I didn’t think much of it till I seen my sifu get up go over to the English lad and use acupressure on him and called the Chinese lad stupid for what he did.

We tried to find out what he did but my sifu just told us he didn’t understand us. His way of saying im not telling you lol

[chefkicker]

Iceman

I can’t understand why it takes them so long to do things like Chi Sau (sticking Hands) Chin Na (Locking) San Da (Chinese Kickboxing) it should be shown from day one????????

 

The way we do it is the San Da is a separate class as not everyone wants to do it but Sticking hands and chin na is part of all the classes just like basics and Stances are, If you don’t do it how can you do Kung Fu its all part and parcel????

 

Pressure points I don’t think it should be shown till you know you can trust the student; they will pick up little bits as they go along, but nothing to serous that will harm others.

 

Ps don’t get me wrong I have the utmost respect for Lau Gar I just cant understand why they are holding thing back unless they don’t have it to give????

 

Well said Davemantis.

A good post from the man who knows his stuff about Chinese martial arts.

I think that San Da and Chin na should be taught straight away.

Chances are as Davemantis said " I have the utmost respect for Lau Gar I just cant understand why they are holding thing back unless they don’t have it to give????"

Now funnily enough a lot of Lau Gar based clubs advertise "chinese kickboxing" and really offer semi contact tiggy on the mats. Now if a Lau Gar club want to offer me some REAL kickboxers for my next full contact show then I will be willing to acknowledge them as a kickboxing club (hint hint).

 

Crayfish is also spot on when he says that a kickboxer of 6 years experience will destroy most martial artists who have trained 6 years in katas and forms.

Well he is nine times out of ten. For the remaining one out of ten,... Watch out I guess!

[Iceman]

Dave

well as i said before i proberbly exagerated a little when i said 6 years .

when i trained in Lau Gar in the early to mid ninties then the only people doing sticking hands were the black sashes, the rest of us had to make do with semi contact, but i now know that chi sau is taught at an earlyer stage however as for the chi na and pressure point stuff then as i under stand it it is only black sashes and above that learn these secrets but the techniques are in the forms but unless you know the application then you have no chance of understanding it.

My understanding is Lau Gar Kung fu knowledge( now i mean chi gung, chi na , pressure points) isn't given to students , but students earn the right to

learn it.

When ive talked to my old instructor he has explained that from a very early stage in Lau Gar (2nd sash) the form we learnt was a foundation for chi gung , but it was wasted on 99% of the class. as i mentioned before most of us wanted black belts or whatever and couldnt understand why breathing slow and abdominal breathing had to do with the bruce lee image.

 

The 6 years it takes to get to black sash is spent building the foundations.

 

Lets look at it another way if i trained twice a week for 1 hour, in 1 year that would be :

 

104 hours of training( thats if i dont miss any lessons)

 

that is only 13 days training (if you trained 8 hours a day)

 

and if you take away the time you spend warming up an stretching you could half it again down to 7/8 days of solid kung fu.

 

Not a lot of training , any way after about a months solid training i quite ,

i think i might ask one of the instructors to come along and give his views? (when i see him next)

[Davemantis]

Iceman

 

are you saying you have only trained 1 month of lau gar????

What are you training in now??????????

 

There are no secrets in any martial arts only hard training unfortunately a lot of people only want to do it so they can say to there mates in the Pub, look I do a martial art.

 

Yep the techniques are in the forms but you should be shown from day one what there are for otherwise you might as well go to a gym and do Boxercise (no offence to all you that, it’s a good way to keep fit).

[cavegal]

Hi dave i was using the example that training twice a week for 1 year only works out at 104 hrs so split in to weeks (assuming you trained for 8 hours each day) would be around 2 weeks training !

 

so my 1 month solid training works out at around two and a half years (at twice a week).

 

I dont do any thing at the moment, but i know i should unfortunatly family commitments and all that stuff gets in the way!

 

Youre wright Dave we were shown application of forms

, but as you know show one person a block and some one else could show you the same technique as a strike or a lock, nothing is ever black and white,

so i guess it depends on how much the student wants to understand.or some times the students would get confused, so i suppose that is why it takes so long to understand your techniques, but as i said even 6 years is only 78 days (of solid) training or there abouts.

[Davemantis]

that makes more sence thats what i get for speed reading lol

 

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[ShotoKarate]

Crayfish is also spot on when he says that a kickboxer of 6 years experience will destroy most martial artists who have trained 6 years in katas and forms.

Well he is nine times out of ten. For the remaining one out of ten,... Watch out I guess!

 

I firmly believe that this is true only because katas and forms are largely taught as callesthenic exercises rather than realistic fighting drills .....

 

There is a growing movement in karate these days reclaiming kata from the 'only useful to strengthen your body' brigade ..... I've seen some sensei recently who really make sense of the kata they teach (ie Iain Abernathy, Mark Carroll, Geoff Thompson, Graham Ravey etc etc) .....

[Adam S]

I firmly believe that this is true only because katas and forms are largely taught as callesthenic exercises rather than realistic fighting drills .....

 

There is a growing movement in karate these days reclaiming kata from the 'only useful to strengthen your body' brigade ..... I've seen some sensei recently who really make sense of the kata they teach (ie Iain Abernathy, Mark Carroll, Geoff Thompson, Graham Ravey etc etc) .....

 

Well, yes - someone who trains in a more pragmatic fighting style is bound to win anyone who trains a more esoteric art, that's just the way things are.

 

While it's fun to perform katas and explore the "hidden secrets" that may or may not exist, I don't think it's a substitution to ring experience.

 

But it totally depends on what your reason for training is, after all. Not every body wants to jump in a ring and compete.

[Iceman]

You'r right Adams and the phrase you mentioned was 'ring experiance' which is ok for competition, but some traditionalists would say that this has little to do with self defence.

I've heard the argument about no karateka have done well in UFC, (which is a very demanding combat sport) but many of the fights end up on the floor and last minutes, but the last place i would want to be when things kick off on a saturday night is on the floor.

But the thing is its not a question of which style is best but rather how hard you train at your chosen style/ system.

(No disrespect intended to any one especially those modern day gladiators that cage fight i wouldn't get in a ring with one.)

[Cyclone]

You'r right Adams and the phrase you mentioned was 'ring experiance' which is ok for competition, but some traditionalists would say that this has little to do with self defence.

I've heard the argument about no karateka have done well in UFC, (which is a very demanding combat sport) but many of the fights end up on the floor and last minutes, but the last place i would want to be when things kick off on a saturday night is on the floor.

But the thing is its not a question of which style is best but rather how hard you train at your chosen style/ system.

(No disrespect intended to any one especially those modern day gladiators that cage fight i wouldn't get in a ring with one.)

 

 

The key point there is that the fights end up on the floor, despite the karateka not wanting to go there.

Which implies to me that they need to do some cross training in order to practice staying on their feet if they really don't want to roll on the floor.

 

You're quite right that in a self defence situation the last place you want to be is rolling in the glass and spilt beer whilst potential friends of your attacker kick your head in. In order to stop that scenario happening you have to train either take down defences, or train your groundwork to allow you to quickly get back to your feet. Ignoring it because you don't like rolling on the floor is sticking your head in the sand.