Suffering because of climate change?

[El Cid 221]

Urban heat islands would be a reason to adjust the data down, not up.

 

 

Do they adjust it up, or down, and by how much?

[Cyclone 10]

They adjust it up. The amount depends on the particular model in question, but it's always up, because otherwise it doesn't show 'sufficient' warming to scare anyone.

[El Cid 221]

You test the predictions with the intention of falsifying the hypothesis. Assuming that they actually make any testable predictions and actually qualify as a hypothesis.

 

Global temperatures are rising and so sea levels are rising, but you dont accept that?

 

---------- Post added 30-07-2015 at 21:53 ----------

 

They adjust it up. The amount depends on the particular model in question, but it's always up, because otherwise it doesn't show 'sufficient' warming to scare anyone.

 

Have you got an example of that?

[Cyclone 10]

It's difficult to figure out who's talking rubbish, and it's probably the case that both sides exaggerate whenever convenient, but this looks pretty suspect...

 

https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/06/23/noaanasa-dramatically-altered-us-temperatures-after-the-year-2000/

 

Obviously they don't write into their methodology "add several degrees to ensure that people are scared and funding keeps coming my way".

 

Edit - what makes you think I don't accept that temperatures and sea level are rising? Are you immediately trying to confuse climate change with anthropogenic climate change and with catastrophic anthropogenic climate change?

[El Cid 221]

It's difficult to figure out who's talking rubbish, and it's probably the case that both sides exaggerate whenever convenient, but this looks pretty suspect...

 

https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/06/23/noaanasa-dramatically-altered-us-temperatures-after-the-year-2000/

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Goddard

[convert 10]

Here's an interesting video from the co-founder of Greenpeace

 

[El Cid 221]

 

Edit - what makes you think I don't accept that temperatures and sea level are rising? Are you immediately trying to confuse climate change with anthropogenic climate change and with catastrophic anthropogenic climate change?

 

The new way skeptics use these days is to accept climate change, but just not all of it, its a good method because the proof is not easily found.

Increase in temperatures predicts more deaths by the spread of mosquitoes, but yet modern medicine is reducing their impact.

 

---------- Post added 30-07-2015 at 22:29 ----------

 

Here's an interesting video from the co-founder of Greenpeace

 

 

Greenpeace dont like him anymore, and I think the feeling is mutual

 

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/about/history/Patrick-Moore-background-information/

 

Patrick Moore Did Not Found Greenpeace; Patrick Moore is a Paid Spokesperson for the Nuclear Industry.

 

He has certainly changed his views.

[unbeliever 10]

The new way skeptics use these days is to accept climate change, but just not all of it, its a good method because the proof is not easily found.

 

That's something the warmists say a lot, but I never doubted AGW. Yet here I am making a case against CAGW. Some people think it's right to exaggerate climate change to make sure that action is taken, and because they think they can help make a better world by getting mankind to de-industrialise.

[convert 10]

Greenpeace dont like him anymore, and I think the feeling is mutual

 

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/about/history/Patrick-Moore-background-information/

 

Patrick Moore Did Not Found Greenpeace; Patrick Moore is a Paid Spokesperson for the Nuclear Industry.

 

He has certainly changed his views.

 

Let's look at Wiki (you like Wiki don't you ElCid)

Moore joined the committee in 1971 and, as Greenpeace co-founder Bob Hunter wrote, “Moore was quickly accepted into the inner circle on the basis of his scientific background, his reputation [as an environmental activist], and his ability to inject practical, no-nonsense insights into the discussions...

 

Following the first voyage, key crew members decided to formally change the name of the Don't Make a Wave Committee to the Greenpeace Foundation. These decision makers included founders Bob Hunter, Rod Marining and Ben Metcalfe as well as Patrick Moore...

 

In early 1977, Bob Hunter stepped down as president of the Greenpeace Foundation and Patrick Moore was elected president...

 

In 1985, Moore was on board the Rainbow Warrior when it was bombed and sunk by the French government....

 

In 1986, after leaving Greenpeace over differences in policy, Moore established a family salmon farming business, Quatsino Seafarms, at his home in Winter Harbour. He commented that he had left Greenpeace because it "took a sharp turn to the political left" and "evolved into an organization of extremism and politically motivated agendas"...

 

As chair of the Sustainable Forestry Committee of the Forest Alliance he spent ten years developing the Principles of Sustainable Forestry, which were later adopted by much of the industry...

 

In 2005, Moore criticized what he saw as scare tactics and disinformation employed by some within the environmental movement, saying that the environmental movement "abandoned science and logic in favor of emotion and sensationalism."Moore contends that for the environmental movement "most of the really serious problems have been dealt with", seeking now to "invent doom and gloom scenarios". He suggests they romanticise peasant life as part of an anti-industrial campaign to prevent development in less-developed countries, which he describes as "anti-human"...

 

He argues that any realistic plan to reduce reliance on fossil fuels or greenhouse gas emissions would require increased use of nuclear energy to supply baseload power. He has also criticized the costs and reliability of wind farms...

 

 

Seems like a scientist with principles to me, one who was a leading activist for the environment, and still is.

[El Cid 221]

 

Seems like a scientist with principles to me, one who was a leading activist for the environment, and still is.

 

Just one of the few that does not go along with the mainstream view, a bit like Nigel Lawson.

Patrick Moore says he was a co-founder of Greenpeace, when Greenpeace was formed in Jan 1970, Moore joined in 1971/2.

He maybe a scientist with principles, but he is not a person with principles, probably just want to make some money.

 

---------- Post added 31-07-2015 at 08:50 ----------

 

Stockholm is banning cars for a day in September.

 

It will do very little for climate change, but it will be good for people to have cleaner air and get more exercise.

[unbeliever 10]

Just one of the few that does not go along with the mainstream view, a bit like Nigel Lawson.

Patrick Moore says he was a co-founder of Greenpeace, when Greenpeace was formed in Jan 1970, Moore joined in 1971/2.

He maybe a scientist with principles, but he is not a person with principles, probably just want to make some money.

 

---------- Post added 31-07-2015 at 08:50 ----------

 

Stockholm is banning cars for a day in September.

 

It will do very little for climate change, but it will be good for people to have cleaner air and get more exercise.

 

Large swathes of the environmental movement have lost their way. They're pursuing de-industrialisation and grabbing onto anything which supports that agenda.

 

You talk like a true believer. But you have not addressed my questions over CO2 sensitivity. You understand that if the CO2 sensitivity of the climate is low, then that has an enormous impact over what degree of cuts in CO2 and at what pace is wise.

Are you not worried about paying more for electricity than rent, being permanently prices out of car ownership, seeing the price of absolutely everything rise dramatically, and massive state spending cuts to free up money for new low CO2 infrastructure?

Edited July 31, 2015 by unbeliever

[L00b 441]

Large swathes of the environmental movement have lost their way. They're pursuing de-instustrialisation and grabbing onto anything which supports that agenda.

Pragmatically (...with a hefty dose of cynicism, to boot), I think it's more a case of grabbing onto anything which keeps them funded these days