Fracking in Sheffield?

[I1L2T3 10]

And your alternative is?

 

One simple concept - separation of public and private. People must be blind if they cannot see the ever growing influence of powerful private interests on politics and policy.

 

The Tories don't even want to be lobbied any more. Now they employ the lobbyist

 

Stinks to high heaven.

[Peer Gynt 10]

:

Do you think folks living in the dales (or other areas) want all this disruption to line the pockets of those already set up for life ? When they wont see a penny advantage themselves ?

 

The price of gas in the US dropped tremendously when fracking opened up new fields... It lined the pockets of everyone who is a consumer of gas.

 

We've already been told recently not to expect a reduction in fuel bills if and when Fracking starts, just like it didn't when North Sea Oil & Gas flowed.

 

---------- Post added 21-07-2013 at 20:54 ----------

 

On the other hand Green peace claim that it won't reduce household prices... Despite the evidence from the US where it has reduced prices.

A politician said it last week.

 

Wake up smell the coffee or we'll be shafted again.

[I1L2T3 10]

 

50 Years supply underground.

 

Problem is getting at it.

 

Like somebody else said with tight regulation it might possibly work. If this and subsequent governments get the regulation bit wrong then the industry will kill itself off.

[Peer Gynt 10]

The price of gas in the US dropped tremendously when fracking opened up new fields... It lined the pockets of everyone who is a consumer of gas.

 

Can you tell us how much UK Oil & gas prices dropped in the 70s when North Sea Oil & Gas flowed.

 

Clue- it starts with 0 and ends with 0.

 

---------- Post added 21-07-2013 at 20:58 ----------

 

Problem is getting at it.

 

Like somebody else said with tight regulation it might possibly work. If this and subsequent governments get the regulation bit wrong then the industry will kill itself off.

 

My Bold= not as hard as offshore drilling.

 

---------- Post added 21-07-2013 at 20:59 ----------

 

No doubt any spare money from fracking will go to reduce the deficit/pay off a few percent of the National Debt/fund a few social programs.

So who will get the rest of the money?

 

---------- Post added 21-07-2013 at 21:02 ----------

 

Read the link. Cuadrilla have admitted it will not lower prices for consumers.

 

As I've said the con has already started.

 

---------- Post added 21-07-2013 at 21:04 ----------

 

Ministers hope that the UK will emulate the US, which has seen a shale gas boom, with a boost to tax revenues, jobs and a reduction in energy imports and household fuel bills.

The government and the drilling companies have already stated that Gas will not be cheaper under Fracking.

 

The con has begun.

 

---------- Post added 21-07-2013 at 21:07 ----------

 

yep and lets be honest if we are sitting on the amount they suspect then image how much is under a country the size of Russia???

 

If we don't develop our fracking market and try and become gas/oil independent then the Russians will corner the market and it won't be economically viable to do it ourselves anymore.

 

Until North Sea Gas started to be used most of our gas was shipped from North Africa, town gas hadn't been used in this country for years prior to the North Sea era.

 

---------- Post added 21-07-2013 at 21:09 ----------

 

We have the most honest politicians in the world, they are not perfect but who is?

So who sold us out over North Sea & Oil & Gas if not the politicians?

Edited July 23, 2013 by esme
quote tags

[Cyclone 10]

The government have stated exactly the opposite. And the evidence from the US is that it will be.

[I1L2T3 10]

The government have stated exactly the opposite. And the evidence from the US is that it will be.

 

The government have said that it 'hopes' prices will be lower. Cuadrilla has said they don't expect them to be, but maybe they might be lower than they might otherwise have been.

 

That doesn't look like any kind of guarantee.

[anywebsite 10]

There are no guarantees, but an increase in supply will lead to prices lower than they otherwise would be. We get cheaper energy than other European countries (with a few exceptions, a few other countries have North Sea gas, cheap Russian gas, coal, or are France) & it'd certainly cost more now without North Sea gas.

 

Since we have inflation, government schemes that affect domestic prices, etc it'll probably just mean prices for gas & electricity rise less quickly than they would've, or the government gets more money to syphon off for 'green' schemes. Even in the USA it took a good few years of fracking for domestic prices to start to fall.

Edited July 22, 2013 by anywebsite

[Peer Gynt 10]

There are no guarantees, but an increase in supply will lead to prices lower than they otherwise would be. We get cheaper energy than other European countries (with a few exceptions, a few other countries have North Sea gas, cheap Russian gas, coal, or are France) & it'd certainly cost more now without North Sea gas.

 

Since we have inflation, government schemes that affect domestic prices, etc it'll probably just mean prices for gas & electricity rise less quickly than they would've, or the government gets more money to syphon off for 'green' schemes. Even in the USA it took a good few years of fracking for domestic prices to start to fall.

Yes but we had umpteen years of North Sea Gas & Oil yet the price kept going up.

 

---------- Post added 22-07-2013 at 09:53 ----------

 

The government have stated exactly the opposite. And the evidence from the US is that it will be.

Both the government and the drilling companies have stated that prices will not drop!

[catpus 10]

A far better bet would be to let the rest of the world corner the market in cheap energy and buy all our goods from them. If all our businesses shut down we won't need the energy to power them.

 

Do you think that being facetious will solve this problem?

It's not just seismic activity that will be a problem, there are issues surrounding groundwater, wastewater and fugitive methane emissions with shale gas. I'm neither pro nor anti at this moment. But there needs to be far more investigations, and checks and balances for me, because the earth tremors/earthquakes are only one element of the controversy especially in our small Island.

As all good journalists do, follow the money. If you look into it, there are similarities with GM,(you were not consulted about it?) and the potential tax revenues may make fracking even more likely.....

Take a peek at these two articles, before making further comments?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17741416

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22524597

 

And think on this:

The total area of California is 158,706 square miles, while England's total area is 94,525 square miles. An earthquake caused by fracking wouldn't even be noticed in California, but could possibly destroy us, if this industry is allowed to escalate, unregulated.

 

Just as an afterthought... In view of all the mountains of waste plastic hanging around waiting to combust; wouldn't it be a good idea to shred it all and pack all the disused/depleted mines with it?

Edited July 23, 2013 by esme
quote tags

[Hillpig 10]

British politics is part of a corporatism they don't even bother to hide. The system is rotten.

 

---------- Post added 21-07-2013 at 20:19 ----------

 

 

You surely cannot believe that.

 

I absolutely believe it, there will always be corrupt people whether they are Politicians, businessmen, union bosses, press barons. My belief is that the majority of politicians and the others mentioned are honest. They may differ in their beliefs but their aim, generally, is the common good.

 

I do not see anything wrong in such people profiting from their endeavors. As long as they obey the law they should be free to receive sponsorship or support from Unions, or the private sector.

 

It was British politicians who ended slavery, who fought and won human rights for workers throughout the 19th and 20th century (politicians from both right and left). Who came together in the dark days of the second world war to confront and defeat the Nazis when it would have been so easy to succumb.

 

Agreed there are disgraceful episodes, the way Labour performed between 1997 and 2010 was, on reflection, criminally inept, the wanton spending of the countries money, the thousands slaughtered in Irag and Afghanistan and now the indefensible way they managed the NHS. I believe history ill see this as an unfortunate interlude in what, on balance has been a commendable period in British and world history.

[catpus 10]

I absolutely believe it, there will always be corrupt people whether they are Politicians, businessmen, union bosses, press barons. My belief is that the majority of politicians and the others mentioned are honest. They may differ in their beliefs but their aim, generally, is the common good.

 

I do not see anything wrong in such people profiting from their endeavors. As long as they obey the law they should be free to receive sponsorship or support from Unions, or the private sector.

 

It was British politicians who ended slavery, who fought and won human rights for workers throughout the 19th and 20th century (politicians from both right and left). Who came together in the dark days of the second world war to confront and defeat the Nazis when it would have been so easy to succumb.

 

Agreed there are disgraceful episodes, the way Labour performed between 1997 and 2010 was, on reflection, criminally inept, the wanton spending of the countries money, the thousands slaughtered in Irag and Afghanistan and now the indefensible way they managed the NHS. I believe history ill see this as an unfortunate interlude in what, on balance has been a commendable period in British and world history.

 

Dear, Oh Dear, What hope is there for us, if people actually believe that any politician can remain 'honest' when faced with overwhelming temptations, and the fact that that there will be no punishment, even if they are found out?

 

.....

From an article written in 2009.

TWELVE years too late, Jack Straw is finally moving to staunch the flow of confidence out of British Parliamentary democracy.

His proposals are hardly revolutionary. Convicted criminals in the House of Lords - such as Lord Conrad Black, the former proprietor of the Daily Telegraph now languishing in a US penitentiary and Lord Jeffrey Archer of sundry British open prisons - are to be permitted to resign their seats in the upper chamber, whereas now they are condemned to a life sentence passing the laws which govern us.

Last week, four Labour peers - Scot Lord Moonie, Lord Truscott, Lord Taylor of Blackburn and Lord Snape - were accused by a Sunday paper of offering to help change laws in return for cash.

 

All four deny any wrongdoing.

 

But Moonie is not the only Scottish "New Labour" Lord on whom interest has descended in this imbroglio. In the latest twist, the sleaze watchdog at Holyrood is to investigate payments to Lord George Foulkes of £3000 a month as a lobbyist.

 

(This is on top of his MSP salary, his London housing allowance, his £330 a day Lords Allowances and the huge cost of him shuttling between the two Parliaments in which he sits.) MSPs are not allowed to be lobbyists or "parliamentary consultants", but Lords are.

 

Foulkes is a lobbyist/consultant for a law firm. The defence, M'Lud, is a simple one. He says he's only a lobbyist when he's being a Lord.

 

When he's being an MSP, he puts away such childish things along with his ermine robes. Until say, 3pm, when he puts both mantles on again.

 

And then there's "Lord" Mike Watson, a former New Labour MSP. Not only does he still sit in the Lords following his prison term for arson - setting fire to the curtains of a hotel full of people because the staff had refused him any more strong drink.

 

But Lord Watson turns out also to be a Parliamentary lobbyist!

 

Now leave aside what kind of companies would want to hire a drunken ex-convict arsonist - the Acme fire alarm company, perhaps - the point is the House of Lords is full of crooks.

 

Lord Conrad Black, former owner of the Daily Telegraph, is still a Lord even though he is currently banged up in a US penitentiary. (**See last link on this page.)

 

Lord Jeffrey Archer is another ex-con on the red benches.

 

New Labour once stood for the abolition of this farce; now it stuffs its mediocrities in to stuff their faces and keep their mouths shut, except when they have to say Yes.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/get-the-house-in-order-1007878

 

And so it goes on:

 

.....

Associated Press

JILL LAWLESS June 2, 2013

LONDON (AP) — Three members of Britain's House of Lords were suspended by their parties Sunday after apparently being caught in newspaper stings agreeing to lobby Parliament in return for cash.

 

Labour peers Brian Mackenzie and Jack Cunningham and Ulster Unionist member John Laird were recorded by a Sunday Times reporter pretending to represent a solar energy firm.

 

They appeared to agree to push the firm's cause in Parliament. Cunningham was recorded saying he could help with "knocking on doors, introductions and getting to see people, including if necessary the ministers," as well as asking questions in the Lords — for a fee of up to 12,000 pounds ($18,000) a month.

 

British parliamentarians are barred from engaging in "paid advocacy" for outside groups, and must declare any income they receive beyond their salaries. But critics say the rules are too loose.

 

The peers denied breaking parliamentary rules. Mackenzie told Sky News that "I will be vindicated" by an investigation, and Laird insisted that "I did not agree to act as a paid advocate in any proceedings of the House nor did I accept payment or other incentive or reward in return for providing parliamentary advice or services."

 

The Labour Party said Sunday that Cunningham and Mackenzie had both been suspended pending an investigation. The Ulster Unionist Party said Laird had quit its group in Parliament "pending the outcome of a review of his behavior."

 

On Friday another politician, lawmaker Patrick Mercer left the Conservative parliamentary caucus "to save my party embarrassment" ahead of allegations of lobbying irregularities due to be aired in a BBC documentary.

 

Mercer is alleged to have taken money from a fake firm professing to work for the government of Fiji. He subsequently asked questions about Fiji in Parliament.

 

British politics has already been tarnished by scandals over influence-peddling and expenses.

 

In 2009, scores of lawmakers were revealed to have wrongly billed the public for items including pornographic movies and an ornamental duck house. Six legislators were jailed.

 

Labour foreign affairs spokesman Douglas Alexander said the latest allegations showed that rules about lobbying needed to be reformed.

 

"I am angry as a citizen of the United Kingdom that this seems to be happening in parliament and I am angry as a politician that the good name of the endeavor of politics — trying to find shared solutions to shared problems — is once again being smeared by what appears to be conduct that literally cannot be defended," he told the BBC.

 

.....

“I’ll pledge £5 to bribe a peer to table a rule-change outlawing corruption in the House of Lords, but only if 24,000 other people do the same.”

 

The Sunday Times revealed that members of the UK House of Lords are available for hire behind closed doors to help get our laws changed. Prices range from £24,000 to £120,000, depending on seniority, and proximity to government ministers.

 

The good news for those seeking to buy their own little piece of democracy is that there seems to be little in the rules to stop this from happening. The bad news for everyone else is that this means that Arms Dealers and Corporate Snoops and the rest, are free to use hard cash to go behind the backs of our Elected Representatives, and buy themselves special favours from our Government.

 

It’s time that this process – previously available only to the rich and cash-happy – was opened up so that ordinary people can participate. By banding together to hire our very own “consultant” in the House of Lords, we can seek to get the law changed in ways that benefit all of us.

 

For just £120,000 a year, we can buy ourselves a top-quality Lord with a direct line to government ministers, and a proven track record of getting legal changes fast-tracked on the quiet. But the evidence suggests that even as little as £24,000 could make a huge difference. The work can already begin in earnest if just 4,800 people join this pledge – but the more people join, the more we can achieve!

 

.....

What I don't understand is, if it is only a 'minority' of the people involved in Politics who are corrupt, then why can't all the others put a stop to it? Unless of course they are leaving the door open for when it is their turn for a slice of the cake?

 

**Just found this article... Thank God for Paxman...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/conrad-black-says-he-could-still-sit-in-the-uk-house-of-lords/article4630790/

 

Sorry for the length of this post.

[Peer Gynt 10]

The worst thing you sometimes have to say is "I told you so" which is what we'll be saying to those who believe that energy bills will drop.

If we don't start harassing our MPs you can say Bye Bye to lower prices.