Next Blades manager - now announced.

[Gazza58]

No more of a gamble than PDC at Sunderland...

 

At least he has had some [not a lot ] manergerial experience.But yeah i agree that is also a big gamble.

[DerbyTup]

 

Oh so very true boldforester I said same on another thread yesterday, some managers click at one club but bomb at others. I think DJ would have been great at Southampton, but for the false allegations leveled at the poor bloke.

 

Some have the Midas touch that follows them from club to club, Fergie and Brian Clough for 2, it was the players at Leeds that got him the sack.

 

Interesting point but I'm not sure I agree about this Midas touch at all.

 

Fergie did well at Aberdeen, but almost got the sack at Man U as he did nothing in the first couple of seasons (was it 3 seasons?). But - here's the difference - they stuck with him and allowed him to rebuild the team that he wanted - and the rest is history.

 

Clough, as you say, bombed out at Leeds, so you can't exactly say the Midas touch followed him there. In common with Fergie, his success came at clubs where he had long tenure, Derby County and Forest.

 

And if you think back to the "great" managers of the past, most of them had one thing in common. Long tenure. They stayed in the job some years and had time to get it right. Bill Shankly, Bob Paisley, Bertie Mee, Bill Nicholson, Joe Mercer, Sir Matt Busby...note all these were from an era when money didn't rule the game like it does today.

 

I think it depends on at what point you stop the clock thesedays as to whether you feel someone is a good or bad manager. Take Roy Hodgson - a saviour at Fulham - a flop at Liverpool. What is he? Good manager or bad manager? There are many others like that. Ian Holloway - he has been sacked endless times and achieved nothing much until he turned up at Blackpool. Now he's a good manager. Or is he?

 

I don't think you can judge a manager on less than 2 seasons personally. It takes that long to get a group of players together and carrying out your plans on the field of play.

 

But fans are fickle. They want success NOW not next season or even next week.

 

This is the problem.

 

Maybe if the football clubs were more honest about their plans it might help. Take my club, the Blades. Realistically we are looking at about 5 years, in my opinion, before we will have a team that is ready to push for promotion to the Premiership. Would the fans buy that? If McCabe came out and said those words people would be protesting and ripping up their season tickets. So we set short term targets that are unachievable for managers and then sack them when they are in danger of not being met.

 

It's very short-sighted, but so are many of the fans, so I guess it fits well.

Edited April 19, 2013 by DerbyTup

[boldforester]

At least he has had some [not a lot ] manergerial experience.But yeah i agree that is also a big gamble.

 

He's already won the local derby, having really stoked up the passion, like Meggo did here. Which will mean fond memories, even when they sack him!

 

Remember Tricky Trev's comments (as manager) about the Sheffield derby - that it's just another game? That was when a lot of fans went off him...

[Gazza58]

He's already won the local derby, having really stoked up the passion, like Meggo did here. Which will mean fond memories, even when they sack him!

 

Remember Tricky Trev's comments (as manager) about the Sheffield derby - that it's just another game? That was when a lot of fans went off him...

 

Yeah, that went down well:( TBH i thought PDCs passion in the derby was well OTT,ok if it was his boyhood team i could buy it,but reckon it was more for the cameras than owt.

[boldforester]

 

Interesting point but I'm not sure I agree about this Midas touch at all.

 

Fergie did well at Aberdeen, but almost got the sack at Man U as he did nothing in the first couple of seasons (was it 3 seasons?). But - here's the difference - they stuck with him and allowed him to rebuild the team that he wanted - and the rest is history.

 

Clough, as you say, bombed out at Leeds, so you can't exactly say the Midas touch followed him there. In common with Fergie, his success came at clubs where he had long tenure, Derby County and Forest.

 

And if you think back to the "great" managers of the past, most of them had one thing in common. Long tenure. They stayed in the job some years and had time to get it right. Bill Shankly, Bob Paisley, Bertie Mee, Bill Nicholson, Joe Mercer, Sir Matt Busby...note all these were from an era when money didn't rule the game like it does today.

 

I think it depends on at what point you stop the clock thesedays as to whether you feel someone is a good or bad manager. Take Roy Hodgson - a saviour at Fulham - a flop at Liverpool. What is he? Good manager or bad manager? There are many others like that. Ian Holloway - he has been sacked endless times and achieved nothing much until he turned up at Blackpool. Now he's a good manager. Or is he?

 

I don't think you can judge a manager on less than 2 seasons personally. It takes that long to get a group of players together and carrying out your plans on the field of play.

 

But fans are fickle. They want success NOW not next season or even next week.

 

This is the problem.

 

Maybe if the football clubs were more honest about their plans it might help. Take my club, the Blades. Realistically we are looking at about 5 years, in my opinion, before we will have a team that is ready to push for promotion to the Premiership. Would the fans buy that? If McCabe came out and said those words people would be protesting and ripping up their season tickets. So we set short term targets that are unachievable for managers and then sack them when they are in danger of not being met.

 

It's very short-sighted, but so are many of the fans, so I guess it fits well.

 

This is a great contribution to the debate, DT. I'm more convinced now, reading this, about the effect of player/fan/club expectation.

Derby and Forest had no tradition when Clough went there. Leeds did; and perhaps that's why his methods didn't work. I've read Johnny Giles' autobiography - he is actually quite generous about BC, and makes the good point that the David Peace novel re-wrote history.

Hodgson at Fulham (not Liverpool) and Holloway at Blackpool (not at a Prem club) would seem to advance this argument.

Haven't the most successful Sheffield managers - Atkinson and Warnock - also done their stint in lower leagues? (OK, Ron was at MU, but that's a bit off the scale....And he did succeed Eustace !

 

---------- Post added 19-04-2013 at 14:22 ----------

 

Yeah, that went down well:( TBH i thought PDCs passion in the derby was well OTT,ok if it was his boyhood team i could buy it,but reckon it was more for the cameras than owt.

 

Yeah, think your right Gaz - but he's a serial Lazio nutter so guess it comes easy to him What was your take on the ref-pushing all those years ago?

[Bypassblade]

The new manager is an interesting scenario, looking at how KM works I cannot see him looking past the cheap option of Morgs. That is not disrespectful of Morgs but remember if he takes the job, he could be come a cult hero (as boss), or completely tarnish the cult status he had as a player.

 

I would not like to see that, the only time that KM has shown what he thought was ambition in bringing in a "big name" was Bryan Robson, and lets face he you could not get much bigger.

 

It turned out to be the biggest single mistake possibly in United's history, and almost ruined us, the biggest disappointment for me was losing Gary Speed to Wales.

 

It's all conjecture but had he stayed his life could have taken a different turn, but he was a credit to football and a great loss (RIP).

 

We've said it before but this time it's so true, we have to get this manager spot on or we is in doo doo land.

 

Earlier I made reference to Brian Clough and when he was at Leeds, it was the players that got him the sack after all the things he'd said about them when at Derby.

 

I mean could you imagine either Sheffield club that got a manager and he won Champions League & FA cup in same season, he'd be immortalised for ever. Look at RDM he got sacked at Chelsea, it's strange how some clubs measure success.

 

I'm old enough to remember when Chelsea were a tin pot yo yo club, with not a pot to pee in.

[top4718]

The new manager is an interesting scenario, looking at how KM works I cannot see him looking past the cheap option of Morgs. That is not disrespectful of Morgs but remember if he takes the job, he could be come a cult hero (as boss), or completely tarnish the cult status he had as a player.

 

I would not like to see that, the only time that KM has shown what he thought was ambition in bringing in a "big name" was Bryan Robson, and lets face he you could not get much bigger.

 

It turned out to be the biggest single mistake possibly in United's history, and almost ruined us, the biggest disappointment for me was losing Gary Speed to Wales.

 

It's all conjecture but had he stayed his life could have taken a different turn, but he was a credit to football and a great loss (RIP).

 

We've said it before but this time it's so true, we have to get this manager spot on or we is in doo doo land.

 

Earlier I made reference to Brian Clough and when he was at Leeds, it was the players that got him the sack after all the things he'd said about them when at Derby.

 

I mean could you imagine either Sheffield club that got a manager and he won Champions League & FA cup in same season, he'd be immortalised for ever. Look at RDM he got sacked at Chelsea, it's strange how some clubs measure success.

 

I'm old enough to remember when Chelsea were a tin pot yo yo club, with not a pot to pee in.

 

Robson may have been a big name but his record as a manager was awful.

 

Dont want to disrespect the memory of Gary Speed (RIP) but I dont remember him being that great a manager at united either. His passing at such a young age was a tragedy for the game though.

[Bypassblade]

Robson may have been a big name but his record as a manager was awful.

 

Dont want to disrespect the memory of Gary Speed (RIP) but I dont remember him being that great a manager at united either. His passing at such a young age was a tragedy for the game though.

 

No GS was building a reputation at the Lane, and could have gone onto great things. Robson was still the only manager to be bottom of PL at Xmas and stay up, don't think it's been done since.

 

My point about his appointment was that he was a BIG NAME, something we are not associated with going for, personally I could not stand him as a player or manager.

[top4718]

No GS was building a reputation at the Lane, and could have gone onto great things. Robson was still the only manager to be bottom of PL at Xmas and stay up, don't think it's been done since.

 

My point about his appointment was that he was a BIG NAME, something we are not associated with going for, personally I could not stand him as a player or manager.

 

Lady GaGa is a big name but she possibly couldnt manage a football team, I dont think just avoiding relegation against the odds is the sign of good manager though, he had endless money at Boro and still took them down, overrated player, poor manager.

[Gazza58]

 

This is a great contribution to the debate, DT. I'm more convinced now, reading this, about the effect of player/fan/club expectation.

Derby and Forest had no tradition when Clough went there. Leeds did; and perhaps that's why his methods didn't work. I've read Johnny Giles' autobiography - he is actually quite generous about BC, and makes the good point that the David Peace novel re-wrote history.

Hodgson at Fulham (not Liverpool) and Holloway at Blackpool (not at a Prem club) would seem to advance this argument.

Haven't the most successful Sheffield managers - Atkinson and Warnock - also done their stint in lower leagues? (OK, Ron was at MU, but that's a bit off the scale....And he did succeed Eustace !

 

---------- Post added 19-04-2013 at 14:22 ----------

 

 

Yeah, think your right Gaz - but he's a serial Lazio nutter so guess it comes easy to him What was your take on the ref-pushing all those years ago?

 

Remember it like it was yesterday BF,PDC knows you dont lay a finger on the ref,so he was stupid,but christ did the ref make a meal of it.Still have to laugh when winterburn [think it was him]came up to PDC mouthing off,then wet his sen when he turned on him. If he had been one of fergies players he would have defended him to the hilt,but DW being the yes man let him down big style.