UKIP candid Geoffrey Clark calls for disabled foetuses to be aborted

[Guest sibon]

There was nothing wrong with my argument (that popularity does not equate to rightness) and I was not losing it. You, on the other hand, have used a dishonest premise to try (unsuccessfully) to substantiate your wrongheqaded suggestion that because UKIP are 'fast-growing' (i.e. popular), that makes them right. It does not, (as my Nazi parallel demonstrates. Other parallels are available).

 

You give the impression of a beetle stranded on its back and waving its legs wildly in the air.

 

In the case of Ukip, or other far right parties, in the current economic climate, comparison with fascistic organisations is reasonable.

 

It is well documented that fascist parties thrive in periods of economic downturn. That is as true now as it was in the 1930s. It is as true here now, or in Greece now, as it was at the end of the Weimar Republic.

 

Of course, the far right parties always deny being far right. Let's all wait for that to happen...

[Plain Talker]

How disabled would the foetuse have to be before termination. Who would make the decision. What if the percieved information was wrong and the aborted foetus was not as disabled as suspected.

 

No, it could never be right in this day and age to abort a "disabled" baby, unless the disablement was proved to be catastrophic, no head, brain or the like.

 

Angel.

 

Whilst in no way would I ever deny any woman the right to a termination, you can't always know the severity of any disability until the child is born. Which makes the decision a difficult one.

 

My former next door neighbour would come home in utter floods of tears from her ante-natal appointments, because the medics kept telling her that the tests showed that the baby she was carrying had Spina Bifida, would be hideously disabled. deformed, and that she really needed to terminate. Immediately.

 

Oddly, when her baby was born, there was not a thing wrong with the child, no Spina Bifida, no disability, no deformity, nothing.

 

I disagree with a blanket policy of "you must terminate" as vehemently as I disagree with the flip-side, of "You cannot terminate". The choice must be the woman's.

[Tradescanthia]

How original- if losing an argument, cite the Nazis.

 

Were the Nazi's studying genetics and reasons for disablement ?? YES !!!!

Its well documented. Dr. Josef Mengele was a main exponent and was personally instrumental in carrying out murders, abortions etc., all in the name of science and ultimately, to develop a suitable gene pool to create 'The Master Race'.

 

Its difficult not to cite the Nazi's in a discussion on this subject.

 

As for UKIP....................

[saunaman]

Why do people moan about Ukip when they should realise that they could actually join the party and have their say on future policy ?

 

Can you imagine grassroots labour supporters e-mailing Ed Milliband about , say , education or health policies and actually making a difference ? Or be listened to in the first place ? The mainstream parties don't care a fig for grass roots members , yet still expect them to blindly vote for them , regardless of grass-roots opinions .

[Tradescanthia]

In the case of Ukip, or other far right parties, in the current economic climate, comparison with fascistic organisations is reasonable.

 

It is well documented that fascist parties thrive in periods of economic downturn. That is as true now as it was in the 1930s. It is as true here now, or in Greece now, as it was at the end of the Weimar Republic.

 

Of course, the far right parties always deny being far right. Let's all wait for that to happen...

 

Well said.

 

Smarmy Dave is already intimating that the unemployed, the disabled, the old and infirm are a drain on the economy. His allies at the Daily Mail never shut up about such people.

Usual right wing drivel.........if Dave cant stand the heat tell him to get out of the kitchen.

 

---------- Post added 31-12-2012 at 00:38 ----------

 

Why do people moan about Ukip when they should realise that they could actually join the party and have their say on future policy ?

 

Can you imagine grassroots labour supporters e-mailing Ed Milliband about , say , education or health policies and actually making a difference ? Or be listened to in the first place ? The mainstream parties don't care a fig for grass roots members , yet still expect them to blindly vote for them , regardless of grass-roots opinions .

 

You CAN influence Labour policy. Join a Union, Join the Labour Party, BUT, above all, go to meetings. Its like wading in treacle, but it works.

Labour are by no means perfect but they are the best hope we have.

Face facts..........

[retep]

Were the Nazi's studying genetics and reasons for disablement ?? YES !!!!

Its well documented. Dr. Josef Mengele was a main exponent and was personally instrumental in carrying out murders, abortions etc., all in the name of science and ultimately, to develop a suitable gene pool to create 'The Master Race'.

 

Its difficult not to cite the Nazi's in a discussion on this subject.

 

As for UKIP....................

 

Who did they get the idea from,

 

It was a British man, not a German, who first came up with the term eugenics in 1883. Francis Galton was a cousin of Charles Darwin and he became obsessed with Origin of Species, especially its chapter on the breeding of domestic animals. This inspired him to spend much of his life studying the variations in human ability. He wrote: "The question was then forced upon me. Could not the race of men be similarly improved? Could not the undesirables be got rid of and the desirables multiplied?".

http://www.newstatesman.com/society/2010/12/british-eugenics-disabled

[WeX]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/12/18/ukip-geoffrey-clark-compulsory-disability-abortion-_n_2322798.html

 

Some may say this a step too far even for a extreme right wing nutjob but removing the emotional attachement is there anything wrong with wanting to improve the gene pool? Surely this can only be advantageous for all humans in the long run?

 

---------- Post added 20-12-2012 at 05:17 ----------

 

And euthanasia for the over-80s and the deportation of 'riff-raff.'

 

huffingtonpost isn't worth jack! Get a real news agency's take on it.

[LeMaquis]

huffingtonpost isn't worth jack! Get a real news agency's take on it.

 

Everything in that link though is true.

[SevenRivers]

Take away the compulsory abortion aspect, and in some ways he is either talking some sense or simply reflecting current practice. It at least opens up a debate.

 

For example, during IVF treatment, multiple embryos are created, but only the most likely to survive are implanted back into the mother. Thousands of embryos (live humans in their first stages of life) are destroyed every year not because they are diseased or defect but because they are leftover and surplus to requirements, yet this is more acceptable than aborting a foetus with a known defect?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1574119/Concern-over-destroyed-embryos-by-IVF-clinics.html

 

Also some people have inheritable genetic defects which they can pass on to their children. They can have foetuses screened for the genetic defect, and abort if the defect is found. Sometimes this is done with IVF outside the womb, again with foetuses carrying the genetic defect destroyed and the most healthy implanted back into the mother.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4757193.stm

[Stoatwobbler]

Why do people moan about Ukip when they should realise that they could actually join the party and have their say on future policy ?

 

Given that I disagree with almost all of UKIP's policies I think I'll take a pass on that offer.

 

To be honest I can't see any incentive for joining any political party at the moment.