Meditation MEGATHREAD

[pattricia 583]

People may think why I , of all people am interested in meditation. The reason is, I have read every article on meditation and everyone, even the medical profession are in favour of it. Thats good enough for me.

[PaliRichard 10]

Snap!!

 

In my miss-spent younger days, did various drugs to death; which I had several terrifying experiences with. After, that, I did Chinese Taoist health arts for many years (Tai Chi, Kung Fu, and a whole spectrum of other things, all with the emphasis on health and well-being).

 

I can say, absolutely, for me, the best high in the world, is a natural one. By being healthy, in body, mind, spirit, emotions, your whole being feeling well and happy, and swimming with Chi.

 

To my mind, nothing beats that, there's no down side, it costs very little, other than the dedication and years of hard work you put in to training.

 

If you're into Donovan (hippy folk music), he does a good version of Riki-Tiki-Tavi, you should check out. Natual high is the best high in the world...

 

Am sure some here won't agree, but that's cool, and we're all good friends I hope.

 

Were your bad experiences the reason you stopped doing drugs?

 

I never had any bad experiences, I just drifted away from it as my interests changed, to be fair my above post makes it sound like there were solid lines of change, there were not, the music/martial arts/Buddhism overlapped somewhat, but I never had a feeling I had to 'change my life', it was a natural process, or at least seems to have been in hindsight.

 

One thing you said really caught my eye, that of 'it costs very little, other than the dedication and years of hard work you put in to training'.

 

The cost aspect is very interesting to me, especially when you look at it from a religious perspective.

 

People often say 'religion controls people with its rules'. I can say definitively that as time went on, and as I took on board more 'rules' from Buddhism, my freedom increased to the point where I now feel totally free, yet I observe more rules than ever.

 

When I was young I was a rebel, I stuck two fingures up at the world and thought no one could control me, but looking back I was more caged then than I have ever been observing religious practice.

 

As I went through the physical training I conceived for myself I began to realise that there was great rewards to have from what in everyday life would be considered a 'sacrifice'. I never consider the time I spent missing out on what my peers were doing a 'sacrifice' or lost time. In fact when I look back now and look at those friends who are still doing what I was doing as a teenager they seem alien to me in a way.

 

I am physically, and definately mentally, much much stronger than almost everyone else my age (I have one friend who is a Muslim, who had a similar journey to me but his wasn't quite so smooth) and I don't consider I have sacrificed anything to get here, all I have done is gained, and the more concentration opens my eyes to see 'beyond the veil' the happier I become.

 

Yours sounds like a very similar 'journey', and I am glad to hear there are more of us out there.

 

[PaliRichard 10]

It makes for interesting reading. For instance the author says : "You also realize that all the things that truly matter ........love, beauty,creativity,joy, inner peace... arise from beyond the mind. You begin to awaken."

 

You see this is where it becomes a little fuzzy for me, it sounds a little too contrived and 'new agey', and it is quotes like this that make me wonder if authors like this have actually done any meditation at all

 

From a Buddhist perspective, with the possible exception of 'joy' and 'inner peace', all the other things mentioned would be classed as constructs of our attatchment, and thus 'unskillfull', that is, constructed exactly by our minds!

 

This is why I would love to meet someone face to face who has had these experiences, I'm afraid this media may impede dialogue without alot of misunderstanding (as I have previously posted).

 

During all my time of interfaith work I have never met anyone who can claim that they have had these as meditative experiences (I have met people who claim love is beyond us of course, but that's not quite the same thing that I am getting at - again put it down to the medium in which we are conversing).

[Waldo 96]

Were your bad experiences the reason you stopped doing drugs?

 

Yes, sort of. In some ways, my demons turned out to be angels. In that these very bad (hellish) experiences promped me to make the life style changes that I really needed to make, at that time.

 

Very glad I did.

 

Training was one of the best things I have ever done with my life, and the top students and head guy were inspirational people. And they deserve all the rewards and benefits, as does anyone, who has consitently put in the hard work to develop themselves.

[dutch 68]

It is great to see you get exited palirichard.

 

Meditation is an "experience" that can only be seen with your own (inner) eyes when you are awake and aware.

 

We are not talking about the same thing.

[dutch 68]

You see this is where it becomes a little fuzzy for me, it sounds a little too contrived and 'new agey', and it is quotes like this that make me wonder if authors like this have actually done any meditation at all

 

From a Buddhist perspective, with the possible exception of 'joy' and 'inner peace', all the other things mentioned would be classed as constructs of our attatchment, and thus 'unskillfull', that is, constructed exactly by our minds!

 

This is why I would love to meet someone face to face who has had these experiences, I'm afraid this media may impede dialogue without alot of misunderstanding (as I have previously posted).

 

During all my time of interfaith work I have never met anyone who can claim that they have had these as meditative experiences (I have met people who claim love is beyond us of course, but that's not quite the same thing that I am getting at - again put it down to the medium in which we are conversing).

 

I have met someone, his meditative energy was so strong it makes you feel like you have caught fire with it.

No doubt everybody can go that way themselves if they really want to.

Nobody is exempted from going there, they only falsely belief it is not for them.

It is not something competitive so don't worry about it.

Edited March 3, 2012 by dutch

[PaliRichard 10]

It is great to see you get exited palirichard.

 

Meditation is an "experience" that can only be seen with your own (inner) eyes when you are awake and aware.

 

We are not talking about the same thing.

 

You see now that sounds much more like the experience I know, the awake and aware part.

 

In all your other posts you have sounded (to me) like you were saying that you were not aware, that the experiencer was almost the same thing as the experience, but now this sounds more like the meditation I know, this is a very difficult subject to talk about.

 

I think awareness here is the key, it is the core of the Buddhist path. Buddhist meditation has nothing to do with the kind of vague dreamy niceness that I (rightly or wrongly) am getting the impression of from alot of this thread. It is a deep, profound concentration that allows us to see through the layers of illusion we build up around ourselves.

 

It doesn't make the outer world a different place, flowers don't suddenly become brighter, we don't suddenly see the 'love' in everything, what we do is become aware of when we are lying to ourselves and this in turn allows us to see that same behaviour manifest in other people.

 

Do you understand what I'm saying, it's very difficult for me to convey it, but this is the first post of yours in which I see that maybe you do know what I'm talking about

 

Why do you think we're not talking about the same thing?

[PaliRichard 10]

I have met someone, his meditative energy was so strong it makes you feel like you have caught fire with it.

No doubt everybody can go that way themselves if they really want to.

Nobody is exempt from going there, they only falsely belief it is not for them.

It is not something competitive so don't worry about it.

 

I would be really grateful if you could try and arrange a meeting between this third party and myself, I would really like the opportunity to talk to him.

 

 

I'm not taking this as a competition to see who is the best meditator, I am really interested, this thread has brought to my attention something I didn't know about. Like I said on the surface (in this medium) it seems unskillful to me, but that is why I want to learn more, I am only being honest, and have no intentional disrespect, but pretending I think it is wonderful when my heart has doubts is not me I'm afraid.

 

Be assured if I am wrong in my initial feeling I will be the first person to be on here to admit it, I am really not shy about admitting my mistakes.

[PaliRichard 10]

Yes, sort of. In some ways, my demons turned out to be angels. In that these very bad (hellish) experiences promped me to make the life style changes that I really needed to make, at that time.

 

Very glad I did.

 

Training was one of the best things I have ever done with my life, and the top students and head guy were inspirational people. And they deserve all the rewards and benefits, as does anyone, who has consitently put in the hard work to develop themselves.

 

I agree entirely

[dutch 68]

Palirichard, the meeting I had with this person was very very special, I also was at his funeral 2 years later.

There are others out there but most of them keep silent and don't talk about it. They will say if you want to talk go to a pub. Here we enter the world of meditation.

 

One day after many years of "trying to" meditate I just spontaniously bursted out laughing and experienced a breakthrough. Now silence grows stronger and mind slows down weakens. And the big joke is that it happens without trying.

And I have worked so hard to find meditation for years, nothing happened. Now it comes and grows only when doing nothing for it. It is like an internal flower.

Is that the off key we talked about? It feels like an off key to me.

 

Everybody can go there. Even in jail they cannot stop you from finding this experience.

Go for it and you can be there immediately. Nobody cannot meditate for some stupid reason or another, excuses of the mind are many but invalid.

[PaliRichard 10]

Palirichard, the meeting I had with this person was very very special, I also was at his funeral 2 years later.

There are others out there but most of them keep silent and don't talk about it. They will say if you want to talk go to a pub. Here we enter the world of meditation.

 

One day after many years of "trying to" meditate I just spontaniously bursted out laughing and experienced a breakthrough. Now silence grows stronger and mind slows down weakens. And the big joke is that it happens without trying.

And I have worked so hard to find meditation for years, nothing happened. Now it comes and grows only when doing nothing for it. It is like an internal flower.

Is that the off key we talked about? It feels like an off key to me.

 

Everybody can go there. Even in jail they cannot stop you from finding this experience.

Go for it and you can be there immediately. Nobody cannot meditate for some stupid reason or another, excuses of the mind are many but invalid.

 

I'm very sorry to hear about your friend dutch.

 

The meditation I practice can be practiced twenty four hours day, whether in a quiet forest or a busy shopping centre, I know exactly what you mean about being able to do it anywhere.

 

Buddhism doesn't teach us to try to meditate, it is a clear path, probably more a formula, it is hard to put into words, the method in itself is easy but it is down to the individual to do the 'work'.

 

the Buddha taught us to practice at every opportunity, it is something of a misconception about Buddhism that we just sit and meditate in quiet places, this kind of sitting helps develop concentration, but once we have become proficiant one should practice while walking, eating, talking, in fact in every aspect of life. The more proficiant meditators can spontaniously enter the Jhanas* (the deeper states of conciousness according to Buddhism).

 

I'm still at a loss as to this 'off' switch, I do not understand how you can be 'off' and aware at the same time, maybe it is a problem of communication and you are just using the word to express the non attatchment to self that the Buddhist practices, maybe we will never know.

 

I wish you good practice though, and I am glad you find peace from your meditation.

 

 

*Jhana is probably more familiar in its Japanese rendering of Zen, which later became a school of Buddhism synominous with the Gong an (Riddles) and Zazen (sitting mrditation) practices. The word has evolved a somewhat different meaning to the original, in Pali the word means a kind of specific absorbtion, which is categorized by the Buddha into four 'parts'. In Sanskrit (Dhyana) Chinese (Chan) and the Japanese Zen it has come to mean a kind of overall 'mindfulness', similar to the instructions the Buddha gave for the practice of meditating in every situation that comes to you in life.

[dutch 68]

My friend died laughing, saying he is only moving around a little.

 

Can relate to your being at loss of this off switch. That significant breakthrough only happened last year to me and I remember what it was like before. Now I know how I fooled myself into thinking I was the controlling external energy. The "off" comes from witnessing the external, knowing that I am the watching energy, not in charge of the carnival out there but awake while watching it al go on.

Easier said than done. I remember how this was impossible for me to understand.

The truth is so utterly simple, we have forgotten how to connect to simplicity, our minds have taken control and we will not find the "off switch (meditation)" unless we have a deep intense willing to even die for it.

I was so busy looking for the off switch, looked everywhere for it. When I stopped looking it came, here I am you silly, but when I was looking my energy was all over the place thinking I had to achieve it.

Hope everybody will get there the sooner the better but they can only discover it themselves if they want, nobody can do it for them. An enlightened master could help create the right atmosphere, direction, but we have to stand on our own feet.

Edited March 3, 2012 by dutch