Agbus Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Perhaps it will make the loving caring intelligent beautiful people of Sheffield like you and I stop and think for a moment about how the world is actually run and that the depths of corruption go way beyond what we are allowed to know. All any of has to do is just spend a few hours on google and youtube to find overwhelming information to support the views of the occupy movement. If you have not done this research then really, what are you talking about? So why the Cathedral? Well what is the church about? The word of God, Jesus......ring any bells? Tax men, throw them out.... What would Jesus say if he was stood with the occupy Sheffield camp right now? The church would be going against what it stands for to not be a good Samaritan in this situation, in my opinion. So, Thank you to them. What is the total amount of money in the world? Who has got it all? Where did they get it from? Why do they want more? Wtf do they do with it? Why would anyone give them more? What are we going to do about it? If you show me where the tax collectors are in the Cathedral I will come and help you throw them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Blind alley Harvey, drop it. The political infrastructure is such that setting up a new party is difficult and expensive. The system may also cause the message to be diluted. A grass-roots campaign on the other hand is much quicker, easier and retains its focus. And the cost - a minor inconvenience to a few people - is one that's worth paying as people like the wonderful Giles Fraser recognised. I take your point but changes would have to be made/enforced by politicians. I have asked before on this thread which existing political party or MPs do the protestors feel are sympathetic to their cause and would push for change ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uboy Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 i think lot's about how the world is run so you are complaining about tax men? are you an active member of the Church of England? do believe in the Church of England's perception of God? do you believe that Jesus was the fullfillment of Judaism's Messianic prophecies? if the answer to any of the last 3 question is no, then I'm not sure why you feel you have a right to demand that the Church do anything. I think that you should start another thread somewhere else for each of those questions as they would be somewhat off topic. No demands at all have been made of the Church, where did yo get that from? You are also evading all the actual issues that the occupy movement is attempting to highlight, you think a lot about how the world is run and what? Do you think that it is OK? Show me the light, because I see something very different indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uboy Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 If you show me where the tax collectors are in the Cathedral I will come and help you throw them out. In this instance "tax collector" is just a metaphor for the 1% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Which is exactly what I'm saying. I mean who did the persuading of mass opinion? It didn't just materialise out of thin air - it was movements and groups who led the call for change. In the case of universal suffrage the mass opinion was mainly created by the demonstrable capability of women to do "mens work" during the first world war, the suffragettes were a spent force by the time women got the vote. The driver for the welfare state was the sacrifices made by everyone in WW2 and an unwillingness of the masses to return to pre-war conditions (homes fit for heros etc). All the above changes came about because making them was a votewinner not because of anyone waving placards. (hence Churchill despite being an incredibly popular wartime leader got voted out straight after the war for opposing them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 In the case of universal suffrage the mass opinion was mainly created by the demonstrable capability of women to do "mens work" during the first world war, the suffragettes were a spent force by the time women got the vote. The driver for the welfare state was the sacrifices made by everyone in WW2 and an unwillingness of the masses to return to pre-war conditions (homes fit for heros etc). All the above changes came about because making them was a votewinner not because of anyone waving placards. (hence Churchill despite being an incredibly popular wartime leader got voted out straight after the war for opposing them) Exactly why I keep asking which party would support them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agbus Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 In this instance "tax collector" is just a metaphor for the 1% You mean the other 99% are in the Cathedral? Just having a bit of fun take no notice, but I don't think upsetting hard working people who often do it for free is going to make anyone any friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 In this instance "tax collector" is just a metaphor for the 1% it's not a very apt metaphor though is it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Man Groovin Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) In the case of universal suffrage the mass opinion was mainly created by the demonstrable capability of women to do "mens work" during the first world war, the suffragettes were a spent force by the time women got the vote. The driver for the welfare state was the sacrifices made by everyone in WW2 and an unwillingness of the masses to return to pre-war conditions (homes fit for heros etc). All the above changes came about because making them was a votewinner not because of anyone waving placards. (hence Churchill despite being an incredibly popular wartime leader got voted out straight after the war for opposing them) This is obvious stuff. But you're talking about drivers not campaigns. Future historians may say that public opinion in 2011 was against the bankers (which it is), but on its own that hasn't and probably will not change very much. People can become very comfortable with the status quo. I'm talking about catalysts here and previous ones were the Fabian society (which laid the foundations of the Labour Party) and the suffragettes (despite what you say) who organised, managed and marshalled that public opinion into real change. I also want to add that without the Fabians there would probably have been no Labour Party as we know it and therefore no landslide in 1945, no welfare state etc. So campaign! Edited November 6, 2011 by E-Man Groovin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uboy Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 it's not a very apt metaphor though is it It is evident this depends on your understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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