New footage released at Ian Tomlinson's inquest.

[Eater Sundae]

And that is a fact. Whether he intended to, is another matter. But if he'd been around enough as a copper, he'd be well aware that a punch on the streets, or a kick, or a hit with an object, could very well lead to death.

 

Punching and hitting with a stick are actions that "could very well lead to death". In the case of hitting with a stick, it would depend on where the blow was, and how hard. Someone around enough as a copper would know the dangers of hitting to the head, and the much reduced danger of hitting to the legs. He would similarly know the relative danger of a push instead of a punch.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Eater Sundae
for clarity

[Hots on]

And that is a fact. Whether he intended to, is another matter. But if he'd been around enough as a copper, he'd be well aware that a punch on the streets, or a kick, or a hit with an object, could very well lead to death.

 

Well spindrift clearly implies that the intent was there; its only the tablets he is taking that is holding him back from saying that he murdered him.

[Hots on]

Punching and hitting with a stick are actions that "could very well lead to death". In the case of hitting with a stick, it would depend on where the blow was, and how hard. Someone around enough as a copper would know the dangers of hitting to the head, and the much reduced danger of hitting to the legs. He would similarly know the relative danger of a push instead of a punch.

 

Heart attacks are a very rare outcome of being hit on the legs!!!

Edited April 10, 2011 by Hots on

[Digsy]

Punching and hitting with a stick are actions that "could very well lead to death". In the case of hitting with a stick, it would depend on where the blow was, and how hard. Someone around enough as a copper would know the dangers of hitting to the head, and the much reduced danger of hitting to the legs. He would similarly know the relative danger of a push instead of a punch.

 

Unfortunately he is not a trained medical professional though, and cannot know the extent of damage caused to the heart through hitting someone on the leg, or pushing them to the ground, he should be aware enough to understand how much damage a head can sustain from impacting the ground.

 

It has been proven that he has used the floor as his weapon of choice twice, why do I call the floor his weapon of choice, well pushing/shoving people forcefully to the floor is a martial arts manoeuvre.

It may not look as severe a manoeuvre as say a suplex or pile drive, but never the less it is a form of attack, and just as dangerous.

 

Now I wouldn't go as far as to say that the officer in the Tomlinson case went out with the intention of committing murder. Even manslaughter could be a bit harsh, unlawful killing......maybe.

What can't be denied though is that an assault occurred against an innocent pedestrian who was trying to go about his business.

 

I've seen other protests where the tactics were a little different, a supervising officer is present with his unit, when he sees an officer getting out of control, they pull him from the front and give him a few minutes cooling off time before being ordered to resume position. And that's when they are in the thick of it, faced with an aggressive opposing line.

 

I'm hoping that it's the fine details that help the police learn from it all and improve standards of policing, put in place protocols that discipline officers not to abandon their posts and go pushing people around.

 

Personally I'm in favour of the police having military training for the sole purpose of handling protests, although they do a good job, the army could teach them how to do a better one.

[upinwath]

What a pie of rubbish.

Many posters are being fooled by lefty idiots looking to divert all their violence by trying to get a copper convicted of something.

In fact it's been known for some time heavy drinking is a cause of heart disease and it's far from a secret that out drunken friend was an alcoholic.

OK, the cop may have been in error to a minor level but to try to blame him for the murder of someone who probably killed himself is the act of an idiot taking us for fools.

Don't be a fool, tell the lefty idiots to get lost.

[upinwath]

^

In other words, no one really has a clue why he died but the left want to divert attention from their massively destructive acts of pure idiotic violence so they pump this non story in an attempt to divert the stupid.

Is anyone here stupid enough to really believe some demi commie's spin?

[JFKvsNixon]

^

In other words, no one really has a clue why he died but the left want to divert attention from their massively destructive acts of pure idiotic violence so they pump this non story in an attempt to divert the stupid.

Is anyone here stupid enough to really believe some demi commie's spin?

 

It's certainly not in other words that nobody has a clue how he died! 2 coroners have concluded the same opinion on how he died, after the first coroner was proved to be incompetent.

[upinwath]

It's certainly not in other words that nobody has a clue how he died! 2 coroners have concluded the same opinion on how he died, after the first coroner was proved to be incompetent.

 

So how did he get the injury?

The cop in the video didn't hit him other than a disputed knock on the leg and a push that sent a drunk wobbling to the ground without anything beyond a slight bump.

One has to ask where an injury severe enough to cause internal bleeding came from considering the man was so injured he could shout obscenities at the police as he drunkenly got to his feet.

 

Have any of you asked if long term alcohol abuse can effect your internal organs and make you bleed without any trauma at all?

 

http://www.helium.com/items/1001609-stomach-and-intestinal-problems-from-alcohol-abuse

 

However, alcohol abuse can lead to severe injury of the digestive tract. Some of the problems are more mild, such as increased likelihood of heartburn, but some are much more serious, such as internal bleeding and increasing the likelihood of cancerous tumors

 

I don't suppose the fools who want the commie version of a violent copper murdering a poor bystander to get out like the little things like facts.

Fact is, however the commies, anarchists and other assorted idiots want it spun out, the bloke was a drunk who deliberately got in the way but died because of his own stupidity in abusing the pop.

It had nothing to do with a slight push from the cop who was fed up of being attacked all day long by the very idiots who want to make him look bad.

 

Instead of spending all this time on a cop who made a minor error in judgement, look at the massive damage and pile of injuries caused by the anarchist idiots. That's where you'll find the real problem.

[JFKvsNixon]

So how did he get the injury?

The cop in the video didn't hit him other than a disputed knock on the leg and a push that sent a drunk wobbling to the ground without anything beyond a slight bump.

One has to ask where an injury severe enough to cause internal bleeding came from considering the man was so injured he could shout obscenities at the police as he drunkenly got to his feet.

 

I had a work colleague would suffered a fatal abdominal injury colliding with someone playing a cricket match, you'd be surprised how fragile the human body can be, that's why the police man should have taken more care, especially so seeing that he wasn't at risk from Tomlinson.

 

Have any of you asked if long term alcohol abuse can effect your internal organs and make you bleed without any trauma at all?

 

I've also seen people bleed to death with that illness, it's not very pretty, there is an extreme amount of blood loss. Of course Tomlinosn didn't suffer from this illness though as it would have been found at his autopsy. So what it's got to do with this thread is anybody's guess.

[upinwath]

Oh dear, oh dear.

The idiot side of the argument are really going for it in a last ditch attempt to divert attention from their violent stupidity.

 

• Thornton anticipated that the cause of Tomlinson's death would be an issue of "controversy" during the next five to six weeks. Specifically, he referred to the divergent medical opinions provided by three pathologists. Dr Freddy Patel, the first to conduct a postmortem, concluded he had died of coronary heart disease. Two subsequent pathologists, Dr Nat Cary and Dr Kenneth Shorrock, said he died of internal bleeding.

 

Apart from the split opinion, nothing says what caused either event so speculation is all a load of crap anyway.

 

• A number of witnesses have given evidence to the jury. They included Tomlinson's widow, Julia, and stepson, Paul King, who described him as a loving father who struggled to overcome his problem with drink. Other witnesses included Barry Smith, who owned the Evening Standard newspaper stand where Tomlinson worked, and two police officers who encountered Tomlinson as he tried to get through cordons, apparently as he made his way home to a hostel in nearby Smithfield.

 

Ah - He was trying to break though police lines. I assume that was down to him being too drunk to realise his stupidity.

 

4.25pm: PC Dean Cocks has taken to the stand. He was a public order medic stationed on Lombard Street when Tomlinson was apparently trying to find his way home to his hostel in nearby Smithfield. This was several minutes before Tomlinson's encounter with Harwood. Cocks said he suspected at the time that Tomlinson, who was stood in the road, was intoxicated. He said Tomlinson was stood in the way of a police carrier van. He said he spoke to him to try to move him out of the road and then "escorted" him out of the way. He described it as a "very low level use of force" to get him back on to the pavement.

 

So he was deliberately blocking the cops before - That backs up my opinion (from the video) he was deliberately blocking PC Harwood.

 

He described how Tomlinson was "shuffling" along the street and appeared "not to be taking everything in" and was "oblivious" to the disturbances going on around him. He said he smelt alcohol on Tomlinson's breath and described him as "very drunk".

 

Look - Two more witnesses saying he was smashed out of his skull.

 

Now take a look at the timeline of Tomlinson's walk. He has several encounters where police have to get the drunk out of their way.

Yes, the cop made an error of judgement but a minor one.