Police shot down suspected suicide bomber in London

[Swan_Vesta 11]

Originally posted by Cyclone

we live in a country where being a dumb ass doesn't normally result in you being executed. Or at least we did.

 

Surely most people would have the common sense to realise that normally, let alone in this political climate, legging it from armed officers follows the same train of logic as putting one's willy in a mincer.

 

It's a pity we can't legislate against stupidity.

[Kthebean 10]

On the one hand, its a bit hysterical to start on "now the police can execute anyone they like, police state etc"

 

On the other, there could have been a multitude of reasons why this guy thought it was a smart idea to run.

[sheffco 10]

"Execution" now is it?? - - Any more emotive terms to be used?

Listening to the comments of this guy's family, he was used to living in an area whre armed police are the norm.

He would have known full well how to react when confronted by armed police, and I'm sure that they didn't just produce guns and chase him. He could have gone down in a hail of automatic fire the moment he walked into sight. (That's an execution)

He was of good character, friendly and law abiding.

Very similar sentiments were expressed by the families of the 7/7 bombers, who were the root cause of this anti terrorist policy.

His family now intend to sue the police.

Who will the bombing victims of families sue?

 

It was a very tragic error, but rather than dissuade the security services from their unenviable duties. Let it serve to inform the public as a whole to obey stop instructions to the letter.

Britain didn't ask for this climate of mistrust and fear, and 99% of the population have nothing to worry about when requested to stop and be searched.

[Fareast 10]

I'll just say this so people don't get the wrong impression :-

 

I think what happened to the Brazilian man was tragic, particularly for his family too , it happening so far from them and his home. No matter whether he panicked , wasn't thinking clearly or whatever , it was still a tragedy.I think we are ALL prone to make mistakes in moments of stress .

But , to blame the police or class them as cold blooded executioners is almost beyond belief. Why would they bother to do all that they did ? What possible advantage could they get ? Every police officer knows that every death of that type is investigated and the whole incident was witnessed by people who will later be asked about it. Despite what some people think about our police , killing someone , even if you're trained on how to do it , is a very traumatic experience for 99.9 % of the population. It's not the casual affair it has been in some parts of the world , where psychopaths have polished off thousands at a time..

I think that what happened at Stockwell can be likened to , "friendly fire " deaths in wartime. Only a complete lunatic would want to kill his own side but it DOES happen in the confusion and tension of war. People make mistakes all the time but when they do , the conspiracy theorists can never accept it. Is it that they never make errors of judgement in extremely stressful situations ? ....Maybe they don't !!

[Greybeard 10]

Originally posted by Phanerothyme

 

"what to do if you are challenged by armed police"

1. Do not run.

2. drop to your knees and put your hands on your head

3. do not move, speak or signal in anyway.

4. Obey the police without hesitation or question.

 

Failure to comply may result in death.

 

Good advice, - provided you are properly challenged.

 

From the 'Times' today -

 

"By far the most controversial claim comes from a number of witnesses who have cast doubt on police statements that they shouted a warning or identified themselves to the suspect before opening fire."

 

"Lee Ruston, 32, who was on the platform, said that he did not hear any of the three shout “police” or anything like it. Mr Ruston, a construction company director, said that he saw two of the officers put on their blue baseball caps marked “police” but that the frightened electrician could not have seen that happen because he had his back to the officers and was running with his head down."

 

The police have made repeated appeals for information from witnesses about the bombings, but I'm not aware of any appeal for witnesses to this shooting, although the media seem able to find them readily enough.

 

Nor am I sure that the full facts will come to light from an 'independent inquiry, so often in this sceanrio do the police hide behind 'operational reasons' as an excuse not to reveal all they know.

 

From the time of the shooting the 'facts' fed to the press has changed several times and no doubt will change several times more before most of the truth is revealed.

 

To my mind the policy of 'shoot to kill' suspected suicide bombers doesn't even allow a challenge by the police. If the bomber is aware of any suspicion he detonates the bomb, so he has to be killed before that happens. and therefore before there is any certainty that he is in fact a suicide bomber.

[nick2 10]

Originally posted by Swan_Vesta

Surely this falls under the heading of "common sense"? Armed officers are wanting to talk to you, the last thing you should do is leg it.

 

I read in the paper this morning that (according to eye witnesses) the police weren't wearing anything to identify them as police until they started chasing him, they they put baseball hats on, and they never shouted "Stop, police" (or whatever they shout). What I find strange is they they thought he might detonate a bomb with a hidden trigger but 4 police men jumping on top of him wouldn't trigger it.

[Tony 10]

It seems to me potentially quite simple as to why there aren't witnesses on the platform that heard any warning because those warnings were shouted long before they got to the station, out in the street.

 

It also seems now that they were identified with the usual POLICE baseball caps.

 

I'm getting the impression that the officers involved followed procedure as well as they could in the heat of the moment.

 

 

 

The 'friendly fire' analogy above seems quite appropriate. Unfortunately, when there are members of the general public walking around with bombs strapped to them the Police have an almost impossible job once it gets into the street. Tragic, but totally unavoidable.

[Foxxx 10]

Been away this weekend camping in the middle of nowhere and just trying to catch up on this thread and the news development about this poor poor man.

 

From what I am now gathering, the BBC have reported that his student visa had run out so he was effectively an illegal immigrant. This could be the possible reason for him running away, that coupled with him being Brazilian and fearing armed police.

 

Whatever happened, as others have said there will be a full enquiry. Depending on which account you listen to depends on how people are reacting to this. Some witnesses say the police didn't shout warnings or identify themselves as police. Others say they shouted and wore baseball caps (although we don't know if the victim saw or heard). Then there is of course the survellance aspect. How did the police get it so wrong and follow the wrong man? Did he come out of the house they were watching or as reported (can't remember where), it was actually a block of flats so he was just innocently leaving and the police mistook him. That aside, they were watching that area for good reason I am sure.

 

There are many questions unanswered and we should stop jumping to conclusions until we know what actually happened.

 

As for the previous comments on white muslims. I know what Phan was saying, and people should not assume the terrorists to be black and asian. There are Muslims from all over the world and they are not all black and not all asian. Don't be so quick to judge, after all the man believed to be behind the Madrid bombings is white.

 

found picture of him here

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/326743p-279325c.html

OK, I realise he's not British but that's not to say there aren't British White Muslims that are part of this network. We should never assume.

[LEANAH 10]

Originally posted by Phanerothyme

Er - Stephen Warldorf?

Harry Stanley.

James Ashley?

 

Of course the police shoot the wrong people. If you shoot people, you will end up shooting the wrong people - fact.

 

true, but if they didnt kill him and he WAS a suicide bomber then you would all be saying " why wasnt he killed instead of risking many lifes?"

 

they cant win..

 

if they hadnt killed him he could have still set off a bomb.

but yes he didnt need to be shot 5 times.

 

 

but i agree with the shoot to kill policy.

[Foxxx 10]

Originally posted by LEANAH

true, but if they didnt kill him and he WAS a suicide bomber then you would all be saying " why wasnt he killed instead of risking many lifes?"

 

they cant win..

 

if they hadnt killed him he could have still set off a bomb.

but yes he didnt need to be shot 5 times.

 

 

but i agree with the shoot to kill policy.

 

Indeed, shoot to kill is fair enough because it potentially protects us, however I also agree with Phan, this policy should have been made public. It's a shame this policy has only been made public by a big news story of the death of an innocent man who probably just didn't think he would get shot in the head for running off.

[LordChaverly 10]

The mystery as to why the guy ran from the police may have a perfectly simple explanation. Apparently his visa had expired. Had the police checked him out, he might have had to go home earlier than he wanted to.

[Fareast 10]

Another aspect no-one has mentioned up to now is this :--

 

Not so long ago , the McPherson report concluded that the Met Police were institutionally racist.Now , to rid a vast organisation consisting of thousands of officers of racialism must take a hell of a lot of time.

These officers have to go on courses to become aware that all cultures have equal value , to use appropriate body language when dealing with any minorities , to be particularly careful when using language which could be deemed offensive by any minorities and to learn how to record information relating to any crimes or potential crimes committed by any minorities.

The "canteen culture ' was to be wiped out. Now , I wonder how far they've got with this programme ? If they haven't anywhere near completed it , it means that the Met. is still riddled with quite a bit of racialism, wouldn't you think. ?

If I was a Muslim , living in Britain and IF I believed the McPherson report , I'd feel a bit uneasy about all this , wouldn't you ?