9% of UK prisoners are former soldiers say NAPO

[TeaFan 10]

When it comes to debates around prisoners, there are broadly speaking two camps. One camp is what you might call the liberal camp: they are reluctant to condemn criminals and prisoners too quickly, believing that people's backgrounds and life experiences seem to have an effect on their offending (for example, around 30% of UK prisoners are people who grew up in local authority care). The other camp is generally very hostile to the liberal camp. They talk of prisoners' rights being put before those of their victims, and are dismissive of trying to explain offending behaviour by a person's life experiences - their point of view can be read almost daily in papers such as the Mail or the Sun; and regularly in Sheffield Forum.

 

I wonder, then, what the anti-liberals would make of this story http://www.napo.org.uk/cgi-bin/dbman/db.cgi?db=default&uid=default&ID=188&view_records=1&ww=1

 

It seems that the undeniably very stressful experiences of UK armed forces personnel is causing many of them to commit crimes when they are discharged, and a lot of them are ending up in prison. I think it's a very poor show that people who are being sent around the world to do the government's dirty work are not getting enough support when they've finished their tour of duty, and are being banged up when they should be getting treatment. But then I think it's a national scandal that our system of "care" for children seems to prepare them for a life of crime and imprisonment. And that prisons seem to be used as an alternative to psychiatric hospitals, with lots of unwell people being sent to prison when they, like the soldiers, should be getting treatment instead.

 

It would be nice to think that stories like this might soften the rhetoric of the "hang 'em and flog 'em" brigade when it comes to prisoners. I wonder.

[Alien 10]

Maybe it's seen as them having a sound excuse for their behaviour while those with poor backgrounds can't.

 

It may be that soldiers who commit crimes are not only victims of front line duty but also victims of a poor childhood too.

 

The damaged caused by front line duty and/or poor childhood can be separated in the name of: we understand because they fought for our country....there's no excuse for an abused child who goes off the tracks though. We just see the crime and it's effects, not the cause.

[Ninjamagic 10]

A very interesting point Coffee-Hater. Do you know where the most concentration of crime is? (north/south/wales??) from these ex army peeps?

[chem1st 10]

Violence is key to survival in a warzone, I am not surpirsed people who have been in warzones are more inclined towards violence.

Wouldn't be surprised if there was a higher suicide rate neither.

[Heyesey 11]

There's another possibility that might account for some part of that 9%.

 

We probably all knew a few kids at school who liked beating up other kids, and who wanted to go in the army because it meant they could fight for a living. If those types actually get in (which I don't know) and then later get out, it seems to me they always were likely to end up inside and that their propensity for violence, and propensity to join the army, are a correlation but not a cause.

 

 

I don't intend to imply that all, or even very many, armed forces personnel are of this type. Then again, most armed forces personnel do not end up in prison. Maybe a chunk of the ones that do, are of this type.

[Swan_Vesta 11]

Surely if one were in the armed forces then they should have a little discipline instilled into them? Where's that discipline when they're committing crimes?

 

I'm sure that a certain percentage of criminals share a common factor ........ The fact that it's militarily based is a shame because I know some ex soldiers who are the most respectable guys on earth.

[Halibut 12]

I've heard it said that many Vietnam vets turned to crime (often armed robbery, drug dealing etc) as they were unable to cope with the boredom of life in civvy street after the adrenaline rush of fighting the VC.

[TeaFan 10]

Maybe it's seen as them having a sound excuse for their behaviour while those with poor backgrounds can't.

 

It may be that soldiers who commit crimes are not only victims of front line duty but also victims of a poor childhood too.

 

The damaged caused by front line duty and/or poor childhood can be separated in the name of: we understand because they fought for our country....there's no excuse for an abused child who goes off the tracks though. We just see the crime and it's effects, not the cause.

 

No excuse for an abused child who goes off the tracks? Are you sure about that? A child who is raped nearly every day by his or her dad, who is told that they're utterly worthless and who believes it because they're a child and aren't strong enough to believe different? It seems to me that if you expect people to cope with this into adulthood, it's tantamount to trivialising the abuse: if people can get over it easily enough, the abuse can't be that bad, right?

[TeaFan 10]

Surely if one were in the armed forces then they should have a little discipline instilled into them? Where's that discipline when they're committing crimes?

 

A lot of these people are coming back quite messed up from what they've experienced. It's well established that people with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, for example, can be prone to behaving violently. After WWI, troops returning to Britain often didn't cope, but the government wasn't interested - it seems little has changed.

[Halibut 12]

No excuse for an abused child who goes off the tracks? Are you sure about that? A child who is raped nearly every day by his or her dad, who is told that they're utterly worthless and who believes it because they're a child and aren't strong enough to believe different? It seems to me that if you expect people to cope with this into adulthood, it's tantamount to trivialising the abuse: if people can get over it easily enough, the abuse can't be that bad, right?

 

I thought that was an extraordinary statement too.

[Eric_Collins 11]

I've heard it said that many Vietnam vets turned to crime (often armed robbery, drug dealing etc) as they were unable to cope with the boredom of life in civvy street after the adrenaline rush of fighting the VC.

 

yeh there's nothing like the buzz of hunting other humans.

 

I have no doubts with today's view on soldiers that life in the work place can be a discrimination one. I bet most of these in jail were turned down or sacked because of the military history and there is no other way to make money.

 

Some will go straight into crime in one way or another, i'm guessing hired muscle or the likes.

[Alien 10]

No excuse for an abused child who goes off the tracks? Are you sure about that? A child who is raped nearly every day by his or her dad, who is told that they're utterly worthless and who believes it because they're a child and aren't strong enough to believe different? It seems to me that if you expect people to cope with this into adulthood, it's tantamount to trivialising the abuse: if people can get over it easily enough, the abuse can't be that bad, right?

 

Misunderstanding Teafan. When an abused child goes off tracks later in life the hang em brigade are quick to condemn without looking at the whole picture, but when someone puts their life on the line for queen and country the said hang em brigade are a lot more sympathetic.