salsafan

If it is any consolation, you should see this as a time to reflect. Okay, fine. Not what you wanted. I'm sure you know where you went wrong. You may get some heat from your parents, but one day, they will forgive you. Cos it has happened. What can you do now at this point? Don't dwell, but make use of what a degree certificate can do. It still does make a small difference between a degree holder to a none degree holder, for the sake of consideration for promotions in the future. That is in the future though. If you think that you have the aptitude, and know your self well, when it comes to the job, it is your actions that will speak louder during that process, and not the grade of your certificate. The certificate is just a filtering process. Now go and grab that cert! At least give your parents that tiny proud moment. Whether it is good or bad. As long as you know what to do, and now promise your parents that you will focus on bettering yourself and your life. I think they will be proud.

If you are not a woman, how do you know that it is not degrading? There is a difference between "can't", or "won't".

What? I somehow find your comment patronising. I was being sarcastic there. SOME women thinks that it is liberating to be naked, or semi-naked, and so forth in a paper-format, film, online youtube vids, etc etc etc. When I wrote what I did, I was thinking of people like llmatron. She is saying not to be judgmental of women who wishes to do that. Yet, I am saying that, I do not think that such publications should indeed be in circulation. Yet, I am criticised for having a hang up when she cannot even "look" at men across a dancefloor ? I know the historical Women's Liberation was about a different issue altogether in how women use the term "women's liberation" as a general description for today's modern lifestyle and standard. I am not stupid you know. I do have a rough idea of what Women's Lib back in history was about. Yet, one does not need a PhD in order to give an opinion on what she thinks is happening in today's society either. You did not quote this other paragraph of mine: I think you will find that some people out there see it as a business, and capitalise on that. Some women knows how to play the game and earn themselves money. Some thinks they do, but then gets so warped by it psychologically. Some or most women, do not think in the way that men will view them as an individual. On some primitive level, some males will see them as wanting something more than what the photos are supposed to be there for. How exactly can one defend those who do not see women as "asking for it" and so forth? There is this "individual" versus "collective" view of what something is supposed to be there for. I am surprised though, at having expressed some personal opinions on the matter such that, I am then subjected to attack from other females on the same issue! How ridiculous. Not everybody needs to be groomed to be aggressive. Yet, some people absolutely do not see it as titillating at all. It may work for you, yet it does not work for me. You see it as A, I see it as B. If this is really a democratic society then surely, I too am allowed my opinion from a female's perspective too? Also, I do not have to accept it, even if other females finds it okay and acceptable by their standard. We just have different perspective and values. EVEN if you say that the paper published it that way with the "intent" of titillation. Well, when it gets bought in society and how it then affects society as a whole. Surely, from that context, my opinion is more valid ?

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/1/28/128776811537183578.jpg

http://rlv.zcache.com/i_am_noob_tshirt-p235623602603795545t53h_400.jpg

Teehee. http://www.nastyhobbit.org/data/media/13/kb_warrior.jpg http://www.tyresmoke.net/attachments/1299755-duty_calls.png

I think a lot of people really do not go with their own gut instincts, but gets so swept up by others in society, or things that you read which makes them make bad judgments in life. I think Mr Winner, although waited so long, is probably more truthful to himself now than before. I just thought that it is a luvley luvley story. Bit long. Poor woman, but well done!

LOTS! If you can remove it, you can have it. Before I trim it down and get rid of it. I got myself a chain saw. Waiting for weather to clear up a bit before I tackle it all.

It does not matter as such if everything associated with the market, the people, the living standard, the buying power all increases inline with this. Imagine if this does not happen. Heavier burden on the social service, that is all... I have no idea what will happen with Sheffield. In some area, people living in the cities are driven out to the country for cheaper properties. If the cheaper properties are bought and maintain its prices. As well as the ones inside the city are held onto its price too. Oops! Heavier burden again on council housing. HM....

I don't know if she has been the PA or not. Though, I do know that they met first when he was 21 and she was 16. Apparently, it has been on and off for many years, and he has also never married anyone before as well.

Gosh, if that is your attitude, I can definitely see why Feminism and Women's Lib happened.

You raised a very good point. I do not know how he will be handled, but let us hope that the prison system does account for people with asperger's too. Whether it is as suggested by others already, like a padded cell and so forth. I am assuming here, that if there is a distinction already made between adult and children prisons, then surely there should also be some form to cater for people with disabilities too.

lol. Classic.

Pornography? Yet, if I comment to say that it should be removed from society. Imagine the uproar of those girls who thinks they support Women's Lib! Human Rights etc. Imagine the uproar from the guys who do read pornographic publications. Let us just say that, there are some smart women out there. As just there are some smart men too. However, not everybody wants to be in the "sex sells" industry. Some decency and ethics would not go amiss really.

*Facepalms*

I think Stupid Head did ask what a lot of us did not really want to read or hear. Which are the details. I kind of hoped that I would read the details in my private time as well. Cos I also found it way too harrowing in a public context. Please know that it is not because I do not want to read such things, but the details will drum up my real angry immoral passion embedded in me that I too would want to see those guys jailed. I too, do not want to go to that dark place myself too. I think it is a dark feeling that people do not want to bring up. Though, I do want to whole-heartedly say that, I am pleased to see you write your account to notify others of the horror of society. As well as your wife being so loyal and loving in this instance too. Cos it gave me hope in knowing that there are indeed possibilities of good loving relationships out there. I think that, you should indeed, if you feel up to it, to work with the police and find a way to put these guys behind jail. I also do think that, you should consider publicising this in a book. Or a publication as a way to let others know of the horrors of society. I will say that, I too was more vigilant when I am out and about in Sheffield after I read what you wrote here. So I thank you for sharing that with us. Will you let us know of any good results from either the book publication or the work with the police ?

I think I know who has the hang up...

You made good points. You know what, I bet when my mother gave birth to me, she never in hell would have thought that I needed to know all this, in order to be and remain a woman to-day. Sigh. This is bloomin tough. To be honest, I was not a part of the supposed "sexual liberation" at all. I also do not need to know from others by social endorsement, or by coercion to know where my moral line is, and how ethical and unethical some actions are, and how I needed a new word to define what is going on, and create a new form of social topic altogether in a way to classify one as "mature". I thought that sexual liberation happens for a woman round in her teens to mid 20s, and then she tones down her action and flirting and so forth when she has found a mate. Maybe that is a tad primitive in my eyes, but I am old school in mind too. As much as one has a beautiful body, I did not think that I have to rub it into other people's faces in order to validate myself.

Well, gosh, I sure as heck is regretting in admitting this online now. Yes, that happened when I was very young, and it scared the hell out of me. Even now though, I do not want people wolf whistling to me. I do not like it. I ignore them, and I walk on. I do not have to accept it and let it normalise me and change me as a person either. Maybe I am really old school and want people to stand up to me and talk to me in person and not use intimidating primitive way to get my attention. What do I think of Work of Arts of naked people? I think that it is sensual. Beautiful. I also think that some of the dances which repulsed llmatron here was flirting between two people. It is also social too. Yes, some people over-do it, and forget that they are in a public place, and in fact, we laughed at that the other night, when two drugged up people (non-dancers) were really going for it on the dancefloor. For Godsakes. I mean, as a woman, surely you got to admit that there is a line between what is accepted as sensual, and what is accepted as indecent, right ? I think there are men who also support this idea too. Boy, am I regretting starting this thread.

You're cute. Shocking with your illogical deduction, but I can sense a bit of sincerity in what you are writing. No, I am not that sensitive. I just have standards of behaviour in general. I mean, yeh, we can argue about this all day, but to me, I was just merely bringing up this topic up, as it was one that is considered as today's currents affair. I do not have to justify myself or my life here as such, but no, I do not think that I have a hang up somehow. If you read what I wrote. I did not say that it causes rape, but I said very honestly actually, that it caused me to think "rape" in my mind, when that had happened. Cos it was so out of the blue, and it was also as you say, unwanted attention too. The kind of disgusted feeling that I encountered from that wolf whistling, is also the same that you encountered in the salsa place. It is in an intimidation. However, saying that, there is indeed a social decency line, which should not be lifted, or challenged to go higher and higher. Does that make sense to you ? I am not here to say, "this is my decency line". I wrote this thread, because I know that I am also a part of a group from the general public that, "disagree with the decency line" being pushed further and further towards oversexualising a nation in general.

Well, sleasiness is everywhere. Cos I mean, what about young gals and boys grinding to R&B like no tomorrow in a club ? They do not even dance apart ? Even with some of the close dances like bachata, you do NOT touch your bodies. Even though you think that it happens from a sitting viewpoint. I bet you did not know that. I think only none dancers who haven't learn properly would and will see it that way. Some of the dancers actually know each other pretty well, so they do dance in harmony. Or if they do not know each other, they do dance with respectable distances too. It is when you see these random people who just think that you can "grab dance" with anyone, that causes the bouncers some concerns. My point is that, I was speaking as a member of the general public when I created this thread. Obviously, I have thought of different angles to the issue, as well as sociological ones too. They are not purely based on my own opinions as such. I welcome feedback from yourself or any girlie opinions that you have had. Loose women may not be as credible because their discussion style is not as formal as Question Time. Yet, they do touch upon some important subjects too in a witty manner which is more acceptable to women in general. I agree with you about "some" of the ladies being equivalent to a female pervert. Yes. Sometimes that line is pretty high, and it seems that society accepts this ?

Right. I have such a big hang up about my body such that I go to dance salsa with the opposite sex? Wow, thank you for the self awareness 101 there ! Gosh, I've lost you in this argument for sure. Cos you're getting personal in this debate and I have no idea why.

Nope, that is not what I am saying. I am saying that there are factors which actually fuels and creates rape cases, women swearing, aggressiveness towards men from women based on inappropiate attention at the wrong time, or the fear of being sexualised or that they are sexualised at the wrong time, therefore implies the rape fear. I can also see why the disgust from younger women, or why even some younger women dress like boys, or be laddettes, and goes against their own nature too in order to fend off such unwanted attention, (and there has been an increased attention if you admit to it). End of the day, people should grow up indeed. I have no idea how life used to be in the 60s or 70s. Or how The Sun used to be. However, I absolutely know how life was for me, during the 80s, 90s and the 2010s. You may accept wolf whistles and think nothing of it. Though, I don't accept such random harassment from random men. I rather they introduce themselves and approach me and say "hello", than to catch me off guard and instill fear into me cos I have no heck of an idea who they are and what they want. Catcalling techniques are not the most acceptable way to introduce yourself, is it?

Okay, if you want me to own up and be pedantic. I have never bought a copy of The Sun in my life, but I have read copies that are lying everywhere. That was when I was in my early 20s. I remember being so shocked by it actually. I did not say "how bad". I said "there needs to be a ban". Naked pictures are classified as pornography, no matter how you state it to be. It is there to invoke a certain reaction from male readers.

Why is it a hang up if I see what fuels the decency line? I watched Loose Women today, and it isn't just me who thinks this way. There are a lot of women out there, who do not like Page 3, or The Sun. I do not know why Lib Dem is wanting to ban this, or the legal aspect of it, but I will sure read up on this and their legitimacy too. However, I do know from a social perspective what impacts it have on women. I mean, do you support the idea of page 3 from a female's perspective? Do you want to be in such a paper just so that you can "flaunt" your decency? Would you want your Dad to read such a paper and be proud of your assets? I certainly don't! Gordon Bennett. It is so not everyone's cup of tea, I'm afraid. Well, there is that too. Some men see the dance as very differently, and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I have learnt techniques to defend myself there. I was also taught them as well by some friends, so I am grateful. But you got to agree that, it is still a social dance, and you can absolutely decline someone asking you for a dance too. There are indeed lechy men at salsa, definitely. It is also an indication that you don't want to see those people as potential partners and so forth. So, yeh, I can say that I feel the same, but I have unfortunately built up my own intolerance. I do not go as often or to keep in touch with people whom I do not feel safe towards in any way etc. You got to see how some people are respectful and some not even during the dance. There is an actual etiquette. More often than not, there are some indeed mature individuals who would defend you if you are in trouble. Well, I only go to the places I know and feel safe at.