How prevalent is atheism?

[Crayfish 10]

Crayfish. I am surprised at you, a man of science talking about "gut feeling." I have posted a web site listing all the major conflicts and you need to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find a handful that are fought over religion. When did you last hear of a war where one side said to the other "If you don't worship (insert name of God) I will shoot you?

 

When will you look at the statistics and get your head around the real figures and stop living is this make-believe fantasy world that you have invented for yourselves.

 

The facts are there. Get real will you. Everyone. Wars are fought over territory, oil, politics, power, wealth, and any-other darn reason you can think of EXCEPT religion.

 

I said that it is probably not often the sole factor, but I believe it is a factor and at times can play a major part. Not knowing of any studies directly examining the relationship between religion and war, I venture this as my opinion only and was careful to make that clear.

 

Where religion comes into war (when it isn't an obvious motive e.g. in the case of insurgents trying to create an Islamic state abiding by Sharia law), again in my opinion, is:

 

1. As a common-ground reason to support a war - if people feel they share strong common beliefs with a politician or political party, they're more likely to support them. This could lead to support for a war. As an example, say Bush convinces (or has convinced) the religious right of America that God favours the Iraq war, they'll probably support the Iraq war regardless of whether it's moral or sensible in rational terms .

 

2. As a dehumanising factor in personal moral justification for bloodshed. Killing 'full' humans is hard. In a war, the enemy are therefore dehumanised as much as possible by propaganda, becoming 'krauts' and 'gonks' rather than people. Those with different beliefs to oneself may more easily be regarded as inferior, subhuman or just sufficiently different to not be as human as those with the same beliefs.

 

Would you find it easier to shoot a terrorist reading lines from the Koran, or one reading lines from the Bible?

 

In the case of strong belief, other religions may even become seen as an affront (mine's right! they're wrong! they have to be eradicated to let the truth spread!) and a direct reason for violence.

 

3. By offering scripture that can be 'interpreted' to reward violent activity: I believe in God => scripture is God's words => scripture promotes violence => violence is right and God's wish is an easy leap of 'logic' - and again especially easy to visualise against those with different beliefs, for some reason.

[Grahame 10]

Crayfish. Again. Before making any statement will you check your facts and provide your sources. Gut feelings and emotional outbursts are NOT good enough. What is the point of my posting a web site if you cannot be bothered to read it. In the last site I published it said this,

 

"For a state to prosecute a war it must have the support of its leadership, its military forces, and the population."

 

I put it to you that in this country atheism is in the majority and the simple conclusion is that the majority of those involved in the conception, planning and operation of a British war will be atheists.

 

Enjoy your dinner.

[plekhanov 10]

Crayfish. I am surprised at you, a man of science talking about "gut feeling." I have posted a web site listing all the major conflicts and you need to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find a handful that are fought over religion. When did you last hear of a war where one side said to the other "If you don't worship (insert name of God) I will shoot you?

What you mean aside from the current Algerian Insurgency, Iraqi civil war, Afghan civil war, conflict over Kashmir, Free Aceh Movement, Dayak, Maluku (where people are literally told to convert and worship at gun piont on pain of torture and death)... Once again you are just lying, far from having to 'scrape the bottom of the barrel' to find a conflict with religious origins the very first conflict on the list is religious as are many of the rest.

 

When will you look at the statistics and get your head around the real figures

Do you really not understand why a self selecting poll of shef forum users is completely useless when it comes to determining religious affiliation world wide never mind the causes of conflict worldwide?

 

and stop living is this make-believe fantasy world that you have invented for yourselves.

Says the man who believes in a magic man who lives in the sky and that Islamist terrorists don't have a religious motivation

 

The facts are there. Get real will you. Everyone. Fighting over religion brings no financial gain. Wars are are fought over territory, oil, politics, power, wealth, and any-other darn reason you can think of EXCEPT religion, for the simple reason there is nothing to be gained from it.

Perhaps you should go and explain to the Lords Resistance Army, Taliban, Al-Qaeda, Islamic Salvation Front, the Aceh Merdeka movement, Christian & Muslim militias in Maluku... that there's 'nothing to be gained from' fighting for religious reasons as they sure seem to think there is.

[mills 10]

Kudos Plekhanov

[plekhanov 10]

Crayfish. Again. Before making any statement will you check your facts and provide your sources. Gut feelings and emotional outbursts are NOT good enough. What is the point of my posting a web site if you cannot be bothered to read it. In the last site I published it said this,

 

"For a state to prosecute a war it must have the support of its leadership, its military forces, and the population."

 

I put it to you that in this country atheism is in the majority and the simple conclusion is that the majority of those involved in the conception, planning and operation of a British war will be atheists.

 

Enjoy your dinner.

Once again you are making blatantly false statements, according to the 2001 Census 37.3 million people in England and Wales stated they were Christians with only 7.7 million saying they had 'no religion'. Source

 

Atheist are clearly not in the majority here, as for who's responsible for starting wars the UK's involved in you may have noticed that Tony Blair the driving force behind getting the UK into the war in Iraq far from being an atheist is distinctly Christian.

[Grahame 10]

What you mean aside from the current Algerian Insurgency, Iraqi civil war, Afghan civil war, conflict over Kashmir, Free Aceh Movement, Dayak, Maluku (where people are literally told to convert and worship at gun piont on pain of torture and death)... Once again you are just lying, far from having to 'scrape the bottom of the barrel' to find a conflict with religious origins the very first conflict on the list is religious as are many of the rest.

 

 

Do you really not understand why a self selecting poll of shef forum users is completely useless when it comes to determining religious affiliation world wide never mind the causes of conflict worldwide?

 

 

Says the man who believes in a magic man who lives in the sky and that Islamist terrorists don't have a religious motivation

 

 

Perhaps you should go and explain to the Lords Resistance Army, Taliban, Al-Qaeda, Islamic Salvation Front, the Aceh Merdeka movement, Christian & Muslim militias in Maluku... that there's 'nothing to be gained from' fighting for religious reasons as they sure seem to think there is.

 

As I said you are scraping the bottom of the barrel to find a handful and The Algerian conflict is not a religious war it is political, both sides are Muslim. I can't be bothered to go through the rest but out of hundreds of wars you make a very poor showing.

 

It is about time you came out of this imaginary world you have made for yourself and get real. And stop repeating yourself it gets boring. I notice that since the statistics don't suite you that you have become very selective about them now. Shame on you.

[mills 10]

god told George Bush to end the tyranny in Iraq, is he a self loathing atheist Grahame?

[Grahame 10]

god told George Bush to end the tyranny in Iraq, is he a self loathing atheist Grahame?

 

He is a showman playing to the crowds like politicians do. Politicians need to carry the people with them. It was a publicity stunt.

[mills 10]

Just to change the topic a little, what do you guys think of Dawkins? as an atheist myself, I find him to be rather militant and think he can come accross as an extremist, a little mean.

[Grahame 10]

Just to change the topic a little, what do you guys think of Dawkins? as an atheist myself, I find him to be rather militant and think he can come accross as an extremist, a little mean.

 

He is not a Christian, he does not properly understand Christianity and he is unable to comment sensibly on it. He is fond of one liners or sound bites which is the manipulators tool, they sound great at first and people are takrn in by them but when you study them you see them for the nonsense they are, and yes you are correct he does come across as an extremist and a pompous, self-satisfied one at that.

[plekhanov 10]

As I said you are scraping the bottom of the barrel to find a handful and The Algerian conflict is not a religious war it is political, both sides are Muslim.

So what if both sides are part of the same broad religion? That doesn't mean they can't still have religious conflicts. The fact is that the 'Islamic Salvation Front' thinks that other Algerians aren't sufficiently Islamic so they launched a terrorist campaign to try and create an Islamic theocracy, theirs is a religious fight.

 

I can't be bothered to go through the rest but out of hundreds of wars you make a very poor showing.

Once again you are lying, there were 42 conflicts on the list you posted not 'hundreds' and 6 out of the first 16 (A-I) are religious.

 

It is about time you came out of this imaginary world you have made for yourself and get real. And stop repeating yourself it gets boring. I notice that since the statistics don't suite you that you have become very selective about them now. Shame on you.

If you honestly think a poll on an internet forum can tell us with any accuracy about religious belief in the UK or anywhere else then I suggest you go and read a basic text on sampling to cure yourself of your astonishing ignorance on the subject.

 

He is a showman playing to the crowds like politicians do. Politicians need to carry the people with them. It was a publicity stunt.

And you know that he doesn't believe that Jesus is his saviour how exactly?

[Grahame 10]

So what if both sides are part of the same broad religion? That doesn't mean they can't still have religious conflicts. The fact is that the 'Islamic Salvation Front' thinks that other Algerians aren't sufficiently Islamic so they launched a terrorist campaign to try and create an Islamic theocracy, theirs is a religious fight.

 

 

Once again you are lying, there were 42 conflicts on the list you posted not 'hundreds' and 6 out of the first 16 (A-I) are religious.

 

 

If you honestly think a poll on an internet forum can tell us with any accuracy about religious belief in the UK or anywhere else then I suggest you go and read a basic text on sampling to cure yourself of your astonishing ignorance on the subject.

 

 

And you know that he doesn't believe that Jesus is his saviour how exactly?

 

Plehhanov. I just cannot be bothered with you.