Petition regarding home education on Downing Street website

[waxonwaxoff 13]

I was a supporter ( or ) home education and had intended to sign this petition but this thread has changed my mind. It can't be right for people who start sentences with a lower case letter to be able to educate children, as one already does and another is contemplating.

 

I have a degree and my wife has a teaching degree and yet we couldn't possibly teach our 11 year old the quantity or range of subjects she gets at school now. In the case of at least 3 subjects, she is only 11 and yet we couldn't teach her to the level she is doing at school. We could certainly teach the two infant/junior school children but the main thing they get from that school is the social aspect.

 

It is clear that there are some people who are fit to educate their own children and some who are not. It would be daft to assume that all parents are fit to educate their own children. The most sensible idea would seem to be that they need to be inspected and to prove they are able to provide a sufficient education.

 

 

Hi Ken would that be of not or. My illiteracy is down to my state education, which is clearly not good enough for my children. Well done for your degree and your wife's im sure it has proved invaluable career wise. With regards to Home education please dont underestimate a parents love and support being the biggest teacher and the knowladge that people learn through life is worth a great deal more passed on. Im sure as a father you have a lot to offer your child and your degree being a very small part.

 

People dont just decide to home educate for the sake of it. They do it for their children. It takes a lot of looking into and making sure you feel confident enough. Making sure you are ready to see to the childs every need although this really should be considered before becoming a parent. I wonder if the thought and time that a parent puts in when deciding to home educate is the same as when you put a child in school.

 

All in all Einstein didnt do to bad being home educated and if my kids end up spending their lives working in b&q but are happy and content or working as a rocket scientist but they are happy and content i have done my job. As for the social aspect. Are you really convinced that your children are getting the best social environment and friendships couldnt be made in a more natural surrounding elsewhere?

[KenH 10]

. As for the social aspect. Are you really convinced that your children are getting the best social environment and friendships couldnt be made in a more natural surrounding elsewhere?

 

Yes I am sure.

 

I am sure you must do a great job, in which case it seems entirely reasonable that you wouldn't mind that being inspected. Some people won't be fit to educate their children and so should be stopped and the currect method doesn't seem good enough to me.

[Titian 10]

This is Steiner Waldorf schools we are talking about? Thrilled to hear one is about to be state funded, I had not heard this

 

 

 

Seems a strange reason? I thought they were all into parental right to choose?

 

It would be great if a Steiner school got going again in Sheffield. Do you have premises in mind? Is the Netheredge property still available?

 

Best of luck with your quest - if you get set up it would be great if we could get a relationship going with the local home ed group and maybe work together on some projects? Are any of you home educating in the mean time?

 

 

Thank you hennypenny, we do have quite a few parents (past and present) who home ed and If you are in Sheffield then I'd be surprised if you didn't already know them.

 

Which site in Nether edge do you mean? Is it the Merlin Theatre/ Tintagel house site? If it is then we are already in situ there with our foundation stage. We were rather looking at expansion over the next couple of years to take in two extra settings (foundation stage) so looking at locations. For the future project of a school we are looking at a central location that is easily accessable to all as we feel we may have people traveling in from outside of Sheffield too.

 

At present we are "growing our own" teachers with Plymouth University as you can probably imagine Steiner Waldorf teachers are not thick on the ground. Any teachers reading this interested in retraining?????

 

I have to say we are very lucky to have great support from Ruskin Mill Educational Trust for our project!

[hennypenny 10]

Thank you hennypenny, we do have quite a few parents (past and present) who home ed and If you are in Sheffield then I'd be surprised if you didn't already know them.

 

I'm sure I will.

 

Which site in Nether edge do you mean? Is it the Merlin Theatre/ Tintagel house site? If it is then we are already in situ there with our foundation stage. We were rather looking at expansion over the next couple of years to take in two extra settings (foundation stage) so looking at locations. For the future project of a school we are looking at a central location that is easily accessable to all as we feel we may have people traveling in from outside of Sheffield too.

 

I was thinking of the kindergarten site, yes. I wasn't sure if the old Steiner school buildings had been sold off when it closed down. I knew a lot of children who went there, some moved to Skipton I think it was, and some moved to York. Then there was the next school which opened at Broomhill too, I knew the people who set that up. They moved to York too.

 

At present we are "growing our own" teachers with Plymouth University as you can probably imagine Steiner Waldorf teachers are not thick on the ground. Any teachers reading this interested in retraining?????

 

It might be well worth your while getting on to the Early years HE yahoo email list, you can join at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarlyYearsHE/ there are a lot of people on there who are interested in Steiner Waldorf, and quite a few of them are teachers, so maybe you could recruit there

 

I have to say we are very lucky to have great support from Ruskin Mill Educational Trust for our project!

 

That is great - do you think they would be interested in supporting a local home ed group too?

 

I am sure I will probably have run into you before - were you on the Steiner group stall at the Green fair? We had a home ed stall there.

[Titian 10]

I'm sure I will.

 

 

 

I was thinking of the kindergarten site, yes. I wasn't sure if the old Steiner school buildings had been sold off when it closed down. I knew a lot of children who went there, some moved to Skipton I think it was, and some moved to York. Then there was the next school which opened at Broomhill too, I knew the people who set that up. They moved to York too.

 

The Broomhill group are the missing link for me, I haven't been able to track any of the members down!! It would be good to meet with them for a chat if possible?? I do have regular contact with the people who initiated the school at Tintagel and some are active in the new project.

 

It might be well worth your while getting on to the Early years HE yahoo email list, you can join at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarlyYearsHE/ there are a lot of people on there who are interested in Steiner Waldorf, and quite a few of them are teachers, so maybe you could recruit there

Thanks for that, I've signed up. Here is another useful one that you may already have: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorfhomeeducators/

 

That is great - do you think they would be interested in supporting a local home ed group too?

 

It has been discussed in the past but it would need to be in line with our ethos for us to take it on. We might even be able to gain a training budget for interested people.

 

I am sure I will probably have run into you before - were you on the Steiner group stall at the Green fair? We had a home ed stall there.

 

Yes, I was. That seems so long ago now. We are having a may fayre (funnily enough in May) so when I have the date confirmed I'll let you know. Perhaps we could meet up there. Or perhaps you could have a stall there? It would be nice to make some links, especially if you are working with our ethos.

[waxonwaxoff 13]

Yes I am sure.

 

I am sure you must do a great job, in which case it seems entirely reasonable that you wouldn't mind that being inspected. Some people won't be fit to educate their children and so should be stopped and the currect method doesn't seem good enough to me.

 

My problem is being inspected is one thing but being dictated to is a whole diffrent ball game. When the current school system fails so many children at such a hideous level i find it rather patronising that they want to send someone round to my house and make sure i am ticking the right boxes. Some of you or probably most of you may not agree with how my children are taught. But i can honestly say that i know my children are going to be better off all round then if they were at school. I myself have a great love of learning and i do believe that anybody has the potential to learn anything they want to with a little bit of love and encouragement. I want my children to learn with great enthusiasm. If they only learn one thing and love learning it and learn it well, then they are succesfull. To much time in school is spent skipping from one subject to the next while one child has learnt it all and the other child is still on the title. If school was a product we had paid for we would be asking for our money back. My children and i are very lucky. We lead a very idealistic life. We have very little money but we have everything we need. Our learning is done with the wonderful resources we have a round us. We spend days in the park counting, singing, taking photos and having picnics. Everyday is a case of packing some dinner and going off on an adventure. An adventure in a minibeast jungle or a bird spotting expedition. The adventures without me are just as fun. My youngest brother is a computer genius, he has them messing around making superhero comic books . My mum is German she takes them to the park or the river singing german songs on the way and telling them all the german words for everything they pass. One day we were too tired to go out. My brother had been talking to them about volcanoes. We spent the rest of the day making volcanos on the computer and blowing them up.

 

I would like to say there is a great diffrence between somebody that can be bothered with taking their child to school then somebody that decides to home educate their child. The effort you put into everything you do to make it fun and exciting so the children enjoy it and learn from it is not in the same league as somebody that couldnt give a monkeys wether child is up for school or not. But that in itself is not an argument for who should home educate or not, more of an argument for who should think harder about the responsibilties of being a parent. It dosent take a genius in all fields to for a child to learn well. It takes a loving and patient family which is every childs right.

[KenH 10]

My problem is being inspected is one thing but being dictated to is a whole diffrent ball game. .

 

I am sure you are mostly right, but there must be some things that you should be obliged to teach and would seem reasonable to check this happens. If someone has problems with their language then how can they properly teach a child, for example? An surely a good use of English must be something that is obligatory.

 

When they get older I am sure that the vast majority of parents cannot teach them enough. I cannot teach Chemisty to the level that my 11 year old learns it at schoo, so she wouldn't get chemistry lessons if she was at home. This means that I would be stopping her access to an entire career just because I didn't send her to a school where chemistry is taught. The same goes for at least 3 other subjects to a lesser or greater degree.

[waxonwaxoff 13]

I am sure you are mostly right, but there must be some things that you should be obliged to teach and would seem reasonable to check this happens. If someone has problems with their language then how can they properly teach a child, for example? An surely a good use of English must be something that is obligatory.

 

When they get older I am sure that the vast majority of parents cannot teach them enough. I cannot teach Chemisty to the level that my 11 year old learns it at schoo, so she wouldn't get chemistry lessons if she was at home. This means that I would be stopping her access to an entire career just because I didn't send her to a school where chemistry is taught. The same goes for at least 3 other subjects to a lesser or greater degree.

 

A lot of things you can learn with your child and improve your own knowladge along the way. As for your example of chemistry. If there was a particular subject that your child excelled at or really wanted to do, you would go and find the resources relevant for that subject. Chemistry isnt only learnt in a classroom, after all chemistry has always been around schools havent. Most things we know and study today is somebody elses findings. Let children learn themselves. Baking a cake is a chemical reaction as is cleaning the cooker with baking powder and lemon juice. Time spent in the libary studying chemistry and finding places where chemistry is used and having day visits. You have to remember at school for subjects such as science, equipment is very sparse and experiments are not done as often as you could create at home. Have confidence in yourself that you dont need to know everything and every subject although showing an interest in their chosen subject is vital. I think its a very difficult concept to think outside the school box. From my perspective i see it as at school you study what somebody else learnt, for example Albert Einstein, Issaac Newton, Christopher columbus . I think we should be learning by doing these things ourselves as well as reading about what other people have done.

[KenH 10]

A lot of things you can learn with your child and improve your own knowladge along the way. As for your example of chemistry. If there was a particular subject that your child excelled at or really wanted to do, you would go and find the resources relevant for that subject. Chemistry isnt only learnt in a classroom, after all chemistry has always been around schools havent. Most things we know and study today is somebody elses findings. Let children learn themselves. Baking a cake is a chemical reaction as is cleaning the cooker with baking powder and lemon juice. Time spent in the libary studying chemistry and finding places where chemistry is used and having day visits. You have to remember at school for subjects such as science, equipment is very sparse and experiments are not done as often as you could create at home. Have confidence in yourself that you dont need to know everything and every subject although showing an interest in their chosen subject is vital. I think its a very difficult concept to think outside the school box. From my perspective i see it as at school you study what somebody else learnt, for example Albert Einstein, Issaac Newton, Christopher columbus . I think we should be learning by doing these things ourselves as well as reading about what other people have done.

 

That al sounds very nice, but rather wishy washy and without content. The fact is that my daughters school has several well equiped science labs containing a wide variety of expensive equipment. The school employs several teachers who are experts in their fields and they use this equipment to explain difficult concepts and to let the children experiment for themselves. We cannot give the same range of experiments with household items nor can we expect to explain them to the same degree as a science teacher.

[hennypenny 10]

That al sounds very nice, but rather wishy washy and without content. The fact is that my daughters school has several well equiped science labs containing a wide variety of expensive equipment. The school employs several teachers who are experts in their fields and they use this equipment to explain difficult concepts and to let the children experiment for themselves. We cannot give the same range of experiments with household items nor can we expect to explain them to the same degree as a science teacher.

 

Well KenH, it sounds as though your daughter is unusually lucky in her school.

 

http://www.parliament.uk/post/pn088.pdf Post report 88 Dec 1996 said:-

 

.... a majority of younger age groups are taught biology, maths and physics by teachers without that subject degree, and up to 28% of science and maths teachers of 11-13 year-olds have no (post A-level) qualification in these subjects at all (comparable figures for English and history are 19-22%).

 

So around a 3rd of children in schools are being taught science by someone with no qualification in the subject.

 

There was also a big furore some time ago about children in secondary school never setting hands on any experiments, but being shown them in video's instead, as the schools were cutting down on the costs of insurance by making sure no hazards were in the way of the children.

 

Learning science through experimentation at home does appear to work very well as a matter of fact, I don't have figures, but I have certainly noticed that a large number of home educated children going into further education do seem to choose the sciences. Of my son's home educated friends, I know of 5 who are currently doing degrees and PhD's in biology, physics or chemistry.

 

A group of home educated children from Swindon last year got through into the World championships of the FIRST LEGO League robotics competion held in Holland, and this year to the Uk final, which went through several rounds and they were in competition with school, university and technical college groups.

 

There is also a very good course in electronics which a lot of home educated children do, for fun as well as learning at http://www.kidstuff.co.uk/

 

The whole point about child led education is that you can take it as far as the child is interested. For instance my son was very interested in natural sciences, so we joined Sorby natural history society, one of the foremost societies in the world, luckily based in Sheffield. He went along to the meetings and was lucky enough to have experts to answer his questions, often the world's foremost authority on the subject he was asking about. They liked having a child who was keen to learn and who asked pertinent questions. He had access to the society's electron microscopes and used that often. What better learning could there be than one to one with an expert in the field?

 

When he got interested in astronomy we joined an astronomy club, again adults who were willing to give their time to a child. We joined the Young Archaeologists, RSPB, Nature watch, etc, all of which had experienced people who were happy to share their knowledge. This wouldn't have happened with a class of 30.

 

Because home educating parents only have one or two children to worry about (although I do know a HE family with 12 kids under 13 ), they can spend far more time and energy resourcing learning opportunities than a teacher can with 30+, and they can make those opportunities individually relevant to the interests of the child, rather than having to merely cover a prescribed curriculum.

[hennypenny 10]

I am sure you are mostly right, but there must be some things that you should be obliged to teach and would seem reasonable to check this happens. If someone has problems with their language then how can they properly teach a child, for example? An surely a good use of English must be something that is obligatory.

 

You keep using this word "teach", Ken, which simply does not describe the relationship between me and my children. I am their mum, not their teacher. I help them with finding things out for themselves, I do not decide what and when they will learn. I have never corrected my childrens reading, never given them spelling tests, reading schemes or any such thing. We simply read interesting books of their choice together, and as they grew they learned from frequent reading together to pick out the odd word and then to read. For my son this process was complete by his 4th birthday, for my daughter by 7. They were not taught lists of words to spell, and they spelt words incorrectly often at first - I did not correct them. If I was asked to spell a word for them, then that was given immediately with no testing or trying to guess. They very soon became self correcting and now I ask them for spellings of difficult to spell words, as they are both much better than me.

 

When they get older I am sure that the vast majority of parents cannot teach them enough. I cannot teach Chemisty to the level that my 11 year old learns it at schoo, so she wouldn't get chemistry lessons if she was at home. This means that I would be stopping her access to an entire career just because I didn't send her to a school where chemistry is taught. The same goes for at least 3 other subjects to a lesser or greater degree.

 

This concept you have of the parent being the only input to the child is your stumbling block to understanding home education.

I am not my child's teacher. If there is something they want to learn, either they or I source some way of finding it out. We usually go to the top - why not? So when my son wanted to learn German we found a German lady who would talk with him. When he wanted to learn about Natural history we joined a society full of professors. When he wanted to learn ju-jitsu he arranged to swap helping out in return for lessons. When he wanted to learn guitar he negotiated a reduced rate from a HE parent who was a guitar teacher. When he later wanted to learn the piano he found an international concert pianist who was willing to swap lessons in return for him giving guitar lessons in turn to her husband. Very little money has ever changed hands, we have always had a low income. The parent is not the only resource available to home educated children

[KenH 10]

For instance my son was very interested in natural sciences, so we joined Sorby natural history society, one of the foremost societies in the world, luckily based in Sheffield. He went along to the meetings and was lucky enough to have experts to answer his questions, often the world's foremost authority on the subject he was asking about. They liked having a child who was keen to learn and who asked pertinent questions. He had access to the society's electron microscopes and used that often. What better learning could there be than one to one with an expert in the field?

 

When he got interested in astronomy we joined an astronomy club, again adults who were willing to give their time to a child. We joined the Young Archaeologists, RSPB, Nature watch, etc, all of which had experienced people who were happy to share their knowledge. This wouldn't have happened with a class of 30.

.

 

This is what parents do AND they send their child to school.

 

The problem is that you are saying many schools are poor and so you can do better. Yes, many schools are poor, but some are very good. The schools are inspected and, in theory at least, they are supposed to improve. I can't see any reason why parents teaching their own children can't be similarly inspected so that the good ones get a clean bill of health and the poor ones, of which there must be many, are told what they are missing. As a society we must insist on certain standards in the way that children are looked after, which includes feeding them, clothing them and teaching them. If someone neglects their child, perhaps by starving them, then the authorities are supposed to step in. Why shouldn't they ensure that children being taught at home are also not neglected by missing out on important subjects?

 

I am certainly not against home schooling but I am certain that we could not possibly match the standard and quantity of work and subjects at my daughters school. Maybe we could match the quality of work at some of the poorer schools, I hope I don't have to find out.