The BNP Megathread Part 4- All BNP discussion in here please

[angle20]

both seek to massively increase the power of the state at the expense of the individual

I think true nationalists have a deep commitment to individualism and local communities. This is within certain parameters though: such as having firm and effective policies on law and order.

 

Nationalists would reject excessive state intervention: the public sector's current share of the GDP of the north east of England, for example, is higher than in some of the former communist east European countries.

 

The freedoms of liberal societies are sometimes illusory. Commercial companies can use the power of marketing to make some of their products virtual 'must have' items (eg teenagers and trainers/mobile phones). They can form informal cartels and, perhaps be engaging in expensive advertising, block competitors from entering the market. A similar phenomenon occurs with political parties, particularly in countries such as the USA and UK (less so in countries with proportional representation).

 

We should keep the best aspects of the free market economy but where it is in the national interest, protect our industries and facilitate options such as local co-operatives.

[angle20]

While I would agree that a capitalist society needs an expanding marketplace but that doesn't equate to devouring external human and material resources.

Well the present government doesn't seem able to manage it without Polish plumbers, South African nurses, Saudi oil and Russian gas!

'Liberal capitalists' which is not the same as a liberal

I am using the term 'liberal' as encompassing social liberals and economic liberals (ie nearly all of our current mainstream politicians fall into this joint category).

restrict consumption so that it matches output which is a rather nightmareish idea (culling non productive members of society maybe?)

The Bank of England's Monetary Policy Committee has this task (I think they have to write a letter to the Chancellor if they want to cull some people). Or the Chancellor himself can achieve a similar end by raising taxes.

[plekhanov]

I think true nationalists have a deep commitment to individualism and local communities. This is within certain parameters though: such as having firm and effective policies on law and order.

And the criminalisation of the media giving a platform to individuals criticising your racist and homophobic policies and the banning of things like Star Trek & Eastenders fits into your "deep commitment to individualism" how exactly?

 

Ethnic nationalists like you have zero commitment to individualism as you are obsessed with the purity of whichever imaginary group it is you think you belong to which allows you to trample all over individuals ‘for the good of the people’.

 

Nationalists would reject excessive state intervention: the public sector's current share of the GDP of the north east of England, for example, is higher than in some of the former communist east European countries.

You say this but the economic policies your party advocates would necessitate enormous state intervention at all levels of the economy and the seizure of many peoples property in your idiotic and hopelessly idealistic attempt to replace capitalism.

 

The freedoms of liberal societies are sometimes illusory. Commercial companies can use the power of marketing to make some of their products virtual 'must have' items (eg teenagers and trainers/mobile phones). They can form informal cartels and, perhaps be engaging in expensive advertising, block competitors from entering the market. A similar phenomenon occurs with political parties, particularly in countries such as the USA and UK (less so in countries with proportional representation).

 

We should keep the best aspects of the free market economy but where it is in the national interest, protect our industries and facilitate options such as local co-operatives.

No you wouldn’t, distributionism is a hopelessly unrealistic and idealistic fairy tale of an economic policy the introduction of which would not only destroy our economy and standard of living but as in soviet Russia and China the massive growth in state power necessary to introduce such a bizarre system would crush individual liberty left other from the introduction of your massively authoritarian social policy.

[plekhanov]

Well the present government doesn't seem able to manage it without Polish plumbers, South African nurses, Saudi oil and Russian gas!

Personally I prefer the free trade and movement of people, with Poles voluntarily coming over here to live and work, to autarky and actually invading Poland and instituting slave labour as practised by the BNP's fascistic forebears.

 

I am using the term 'liberal' as encompassing social liberals and economic liberals (ie nearly all of our current mainstream politicians fall into this joint category).

Indeed they do and long may this continue, liberal democracy and a capitalist economy has given us a country with an unprecedentedly large number of educated people live long healthy lives with and incredibly high standard of living. In contrast the short and disastrous experiments in fascism of the last century brought nothing but war, suffering and disaster.

 

The Bank of England's Monetary Policy Committee has this task (I think they have to write a letter to the Chancellor if they want to cull some people). Or the Chancellor himself can achieve a similar end by raising taxes.

Please do explain how you consider any of the arms of the British state to be involved in ‘culling people’.

[angle20]

Indeed they do and long may this continue, liberal democracy and a capitalist economy has given us a country with an unprecedentedly large number of educated people live long healthy lives with and incredibly high standard of living.

I'm fascinated by the way all the left wingers seem to be capitalist running dogs nowadays.

 

It's true that the economy has generally been running well recently. However, the wheels might start to come off this idyllic state of affairs in the not-too-distant future. There's the Peak Oil phenomeneon which ewerny has referred to. In Britain we have massive under-funding of public sector pensions, as well as the unpaid-for private finance initiative capital projects.

 

And if things are going so swimmingly what's all this concern about the environment? Or are blue, green and brown wheelie bins just a liberal's way of saying they have a conscience?

 

Please do explain how you consider any of the arms of the British state to be involved in ‘culling people’.

This was intended to be a humorous remark: though I realise humour is lost on people from the left.

[carcrash]

I'm fascinated by the way all the left wingers seem to be capitalist running dogs nowadays

I read an interesting interview with Norman tebbit a few months ago and he said he though the BNP had more in common with the far left.

[plekhanov]

I'm fascinated by the way all the left wingers seem to be capitalist running dogs nowadays.

And I’m ‘left wing’ why exactly? Antifascism isn’t ‘left wing’ its centrist on any reasonable map of the political landscape, of course I realise that you have a rather distorted view of things have difficulty comprehending this rather simple point.

 

It's true that the economy has generally been running well recently.

Yeah capitalism has had a few good centuries of prosperity and growth unrivalled by any alternative system in humanities history, remind me what’s the track record of the economic system the BNP want to replace capitalism again?

 

However, the wheels might start to come off this idyllic state of affairs in the not-too-distant future. There's the Peak Oil phenomeneon which ewerny has referred to. In Britain we have massive under-funding of public sector pensions, as well as the unpaid-for private finance initiative capital projects.

Capitalism has an unrivalled record at meeting and overcoming challenges, there are always going to be problems ahead some of them quite daunting but this doesn’t mean that your abjectly idealistic fairy tale economic policies make any sense or would do a better job at dealing with these problems.

 

And if things are going so swimmingly what's all this concern about the environment? Or are blue, green and brown wheelie bins just a liberal's way of saying they have a conscience?

Capitalism thus far in the UK has done a pretty good job of cleaning up Britain from the days before we developed environmental awareness, with many of our rivers, beaches and so forth clean again. One reason for this success is that whilst environmental policies cost money we are a wealthy country, if you lot ever got into power and enacted your insane economic policies we simply wouldn’t be able to afford the high environmental standards we currently have.

 

Realistic policies seeking to deal with the bigger environmental issues we face are being developed and debated all the time, many of the seeking to harness the unrivalled power of the market to get things done. These might not be the idealistic, grandiose policies you seem fixated on but they do at least have the advantage of being workable.

 

This was intended to be a humorous remark: though I realise humour is lost on people from the left.

Lets see either as you claim ‘left wing’ people don’t have a sense or humour or you aren’t funny, which is more likely?

[plekhanov]

I read an interesting interview with Norman tebbit a few months ago and he said he though the BNP had more in common with the far left.

Well that's just typical of an old lefties like Tebbit and Sir Teddy Taylor those reds never miss a chance to run their commie mouths off bad mouthing the BNP

[upholder]

I read an interesting interview with Norman tebbit a few months ago and he said he though the BNP had more in common with the far left.

 

I think it was a letter to the Times, not sure though but I read it too.

 

If I remember correctly he actually said "They (BNP) dont sound like a far right party to me".

 

Perhaps some one could find it.

 

Having lived through the Thatcher years I would tend to agree.

 

I always smile whenever I read about "The far right BNP" in the media, they are nothing of the sort.

[stackmonkey]

well the crux of the matter is that oil is going to run out. most of the oil wells have passed the mid way point afterwhich extraction notoriously becomes uncertain. This is known as the peak oil crisis .The BNP had a great

deal to say about it. And reviews alternative energy sources from wind to hydrogen on it's website under peak oil alternatives.

 

All very interesting, I'm sure, but it still doesn't make anyone the wiser about the BNP's environmental policies.