unbeliever Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Safe to say had we voted remain no such chance to change our minds would have been permitted in any forseeable future. ¿ Because that would have been the "right" answer. And the remain side didn't tell "lies" they simply replaced "real facts" with "good facts". It's all completely different you see. ¿ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Smith Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 When does it end? Do we keep having referenda until we vote as we're told to? As you well know, if we`d voted to stay in the EU it wouldn`t have ended, in fact Farage infamously said so himself just after the polls closed when he thought Leave would lose. Funny how no Leave supported ever mentions that, it`s just airbrushed from history. The fact is leaving the EU is, practically speaking, a one way street, but if we`d voted to remain it would have come up again, and again, and again until what the Leavers thought was the right result came up. Bearing the above in mind, if, once the exact terms of exit, and other effects, were actually know (as opposed to being fantasised about and presented as "facts") and the UK still voted to leave, then I`d have to accept it. I wouldn`t like it, but I would accept it. ---------- Post added 07-10-2016 at 13:57 ---------- I have recently come back from a tour of Portugal, Spain and France and I didn't feel embarrassed at all. I spoke to many people, even a Dutch family who we met up with at a second caravan site in France and guess what? No one even mentioned the referendum. And let's face, was it not Angela Merkels treatment of Greece that screwed them over? Tell me, I`m genuinely interested. I can understand why people who don`t actually do much travelling* might vote to leave the EU, but I can`t understand why people who travel would do so. * With the possible exception of the type that got to somewhere hot and then spend all their time in "British Bars". But even then, I can`t really understand why they would want to leave the EU... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 As you well know, if we`d voted to stay in the EU it wouldn`t have ended, in fact Farage infamously said so himself just after the polls closed when he thought Leave would lose. Funny how no Leave supported ever mentions that, it`s just airbrushed from history. The fact is leaving the EU is, practically speaking, a one way street, but if we`d voted to remain it would have come up again, and again, and again until what the Leavers thought was the right result came up. Bearing the above in mind, if, once the exact terms of exit, and other effects, were actually know (as opposed to being fantasised about and presented as "facts") and the UK still voted to leave, then I`d have to accept it. I wouldn`t like it, but I would accept it. Farage was not in charge of anything. He might have continued to argue for a second referendum, but he never spoke for me, nor for the official leave campaign and requests for a second referendum would quite rightly have been summarily rejected by the government (with popular support). The vast majority of leave campaigners (and remain campaigners to be fair) made it clear that they would stand by the result either way even if it was by a single vote. One reasonably crazy sore loser (thought he was a loser at the time) does not undermine the referendum result. You lost. I know it's hard. I hate losing too. But that's what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Smith Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 ¿ Because that would have been the "right" answer. And the remain side didn't tell "lies" they simply replaced "real facts" with "good facts". It's all completely different you see. ¿ I`d be the first to say that the Remain campaign was poor, but, as far as I can remember there was only one barefaced lie, or obvious gross exaggeration. Osborne`s infamous huge tax rises on the day after a Leave vote. I really don`t know why he did that, even I thought it was farcical, I can only assume he thought all this exaggerated rubbish was being spouted by the Leave campaign and, apparently, believed by (enough) people, that he thought he`d try the same thing. A massive own goal in my view, and I said so at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 I`d be the first to say that the Remain campaign was poor, but, as far as I can remember there was only one barefaced lie, or obvious gross exaggeration. Osborne`s infamous huge tax rises on the day after a Leave vote. I really don`t know why he did that, even I thought it was farcical, I can only assume he thought all this exaggerated rubbish was being spouted by the Leave campaign and, apparently, believed by (enough) people, that he thought he`d try the same thing. A massive own goal in my view, and I said so at the time. There was plenty of extremely misleading scaremongering. The 3 million jobs, the prompt recession, even world war 3 to name a few off the top of my head. There was plenty of opportunity for both sides to expose counter each others' bovine excrement. No good and no point crying foul now. One referendum if your limit. I said the same thing when I thought that my side (leave) would lose. It's over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Smith Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 Farage was not in charge of anything. He might have continued to argue for a second referendum, but he never spoke for me, nor for the official leave campaign and requests for a second referendum would quite rightly have been summarily rejected by the government (with popular support). The vast majority of leave campaigners (and remain campaigners to be fair) made it clear that they would stand by the result either way even if it was by a single vote. One reasonably crazy sore loser (thought he was a loser at the time) does not undermine the referendum result. You lost. I know it's hard. I hate losing too. But that's what happened. I didn`t like the results of the last two General Elections, but I accepted them. This is different, we`ve sleepwalked into this, a relatively small number of voters and a gullible electorate believing what rubbish they were told. Question for you. the Leave campaign said we`d still have access to the EU market on more or less the same basis as when we were EU members, with no contribution and no acceptance of any free movement of people*. If that proves not to be the case, are you still saying there should be no second referendum and we should all be happy about it ? Or to put it another way, Leaving by lying ? * Bearing in mind it would only have taken 2% to vote the other way, are you saying that not even 2% of those who voted would have voted differently had they known ? I accept that a majority of those who voted to leave (60% of the 52% who voted to Leave ? ) would almost certainly still vote the same way, I reckon they`d vote to leave whatever the consequences, particularly older people on guaranteed pensions........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 I didn`t like the results of the last two General Elections, but I accepted them. This is different, we`ve sleepwalked into this, a relatively small number of voters and a gullible electorate believing what rubbish they were told. Question for you. the Leave campaign said we`d still have access to the EU market on more or less the same basis as when we were EU members, with no contribution and no acceptance of any free movement of people*. If that proves not to be the case, are you still saying there should be no second referendum and we should all be happy about it ? Or to put it another way, Leaving by lying ? * Bearing in mind it would only have taken 2% to vote the other way, are you saying that not even 2% of those who voted would have voted differently had they known ? I accept that a majority of those who voted to leave (60% of the 52% who voted to Leave ? ) would almost certainly still vote the same way, I reckon they`d vote to leave whatever the consequences, particularly older people on guaranteed pensions........ If I had to guess I think leave would win the next 10 referenda. But we shan't find out, because there's no case for even a second never mind an 11th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Smith Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 There was plenty of extremely misleading scaremongering. The 3 million jobs, the prompt recession, even world war 3 to name a few off the top of my head. There was plenty of opportunity for both sides to expose counter each others' bovine excrement. No good and no point crying foul now. One referendum if your limit. I said the same thing when I thought that my side (leave) would lose. It's over. Who said anything about World War Three ? Though I personally think that Europe is a less safe place for us outside of the EU. As for the other economic consequences, we haven`t actually left yet, we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Who said anything about World War Three ? The Right Honourable David Cameron MP, Prime Minister and First Lord of the Treasury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ez8004 Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 (edited) Exactly my thoughts. This country is a disgrace. The stuff coming out of parliament is absolutely shocking (from amber rudd) and is paving the way for the rise of far right movements. It gets better, if you are foreign then your advice even if it is world class does not qualify. What happened to being judged on merit? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-37590044?SThisFB Edited October 8, 2016 by ez8004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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