What should a British Muslim do?

[Zamo 10]

So this applies to Christianity and atheism as well then. In fact, is there a single group that doesn't produce murderers sometimes?

 

Doesn't change the fact the British Muslim community produces a massively disproportionate level of people who embrace violent and intolerant extremism. An absolute monopoly is not required for criticism to be legitimate.

 

Like Sunday School.

A collective punishment that only applied to one set of people. Okay.

 

Correct. A collective punishment is one bestowed on members of a group regardless of the culpability of each individual. A universal punishment is what would apply to all people.

[Chris_Sleeps 10]

A collective punishment is one bestowed on members of a group regardless of the culpability of each individual. A universal punishment is what would apply to all people.

Regardless of the semantics, which group should apologise for which people?

 

The British Muslims should apologise for British suicide bombers?

The French Muslims should apologise for French suicide bombers?

 

If you want to make religion the unifying factor, then you'll get swamped in creating universal responsibility anyway. All Muslims should apologise for the actions of all Muslims?

[Cyclone 10]

Doesn't change the fact the British Muslim community produces a massively disproportionate level of people who embrace violent and intolerant extremism. An absolute monopoly is not required for criticism to be legitimate.

If there were something concrete to criticise then I'd be comfortable with that.

But I can't agree with such massive generalisations.

 

---------- Post added 15-06-2015 at 14:33 ----------

 

It isn't an inconvenience to my argument. If it were a problem in Britain (which it isn't... perhaps in the US) then I would argue that members of any religious group that provided a platform from which a disproportionate amount of people leap into such extremism, would be collectively responsible.

 

I don't see how people become collectively responsible for the behaviour of others who aren't actually following their teachings and instead are ignoring their teachings.

[RonJeremy 10]

Are you trying to justify it with "it didn't happen here" or that it wasn't in the last few weeks?

---------- Post added 15-06-2015 at 12:54 ----------

I'm not sure I was trying to justify anything. No I can categorically say I did not in any way try to justify a thing.

I am fairly confident I asked 2 questions. Neither of which has been answered.

[loraward 10]

Regardless of the semantics, which group should apologise for which people?

 

The British Muslims should apologise for British suicide bombers?

The French Muslims should apologise for French suicide bombers?

 

If you want to make religion the unifying factor, then you'll get swamped in creating universal responsibility anyway. All Muslims should apologise for the actions of all Muslims?

 

A Muslim is defined as the follower of the religion of Islam, so there is no distinction between Muslims from different parts of the world, they are a collective group all following the religion of Islam, using the same book to guide their life and worshiping the same God.

[Chris_Sleeps 10]

A Muslim is defined as the follower of the religion of Islam, so there is no distinction between Muslims from different parts of the world

Indeed. They're also the group of people who are most likely to be killed by Islamic extremists.

 

To make the victims apologise for the crimes done against them seems a backwards leap - for me.

[loraward 10]

If there were something concrete to criticise then I'd be comfortable with that.

But I can't agree with such massive generalisations.

 

If a religion developed round Hitler and its world wide adherents condemned anyone saying anything bad about him, with the occasional act of violence, would you condemn all the adherents or just the ones committing thoses acts of violence?

 

---------- Post added 15-06-2015 at 14:50 ----------

 

Indeed. They're also the group of people who are most likely to be killed by Islamic extremists.

 

To make the victims apologise for the crimes done against them seems a backwards leap - for me.

 

But is it Islamic extremists killing Muslims, or is it just Muslims disagreeing with each others interpretation of Islam killing each other.

[Chris_Sleeps 10]

But is it Islamic extremists killing Muslims, or is it just Muslims disagreeing with each others interpretation of Islam killing each other.

False dichotomy, Smithy.

 

I think in most people's estimations, killing over religious differences is a tiny little bit extreme.

[loraward 10]

False dichotomy, Smithy.

 

I think in most people's estimations, killing over religious differences is a tiny little bit extreme.

 

 

So is covering your entire body because a book says you should be modest, protesting on the streets over a cartoon, and refraining from consuming food, drinking liquids, smoking, and engaging in sexual relations from dawn until sunset.

[Cyclone 10]

If a religion developed round Hitler and its world wide adherents condemned anyone saying anything bad about him, with the occasional act of violence, would you condemn all the adherents or just the ones committing thoses acts of violence?

I'd condemn them for different reasons.

The entire group for worshipping a monster, and the specific ones that committed violence for what they had done (and any who encouraged or supported that behaviour along with them).

How does that help?

 

---------- Post added 15-06-2015 at 15:36 ----------

 

I'm not sure I was trying to justify anything. No I can categorically say I did not in any way try to justify a thing.

I am fairly confident I asked 2 questions. Neither of which has been answered.

 

I don't see any reason to answer them, they're irrelevant.

 

---------- Post added 15-06-2015 at 15:37 ----------

 

And I assume you're perfectly capable of answering them yourself, so rhetorical and redundant as well.

[sgtkate 10]

So is covering your entire body because a book says you should be modest, protesting on the streets over a cartoon, and refraining from consuming food, drinking liquids, smoking, and engaging in sexual relations from dawn until sunset.

 

Having children take part in a ceremony that has them act out cannibalism, giving up something for a couple of months, talking to yourself while on your knees most days...

 

You can do this for pretty much any religion so I'm not certain I understand your point.

 

---------- Post added 15-06-2015 at 15:39 ----------

 

How can there be such thing when the foundation of Islam is the Quran which is considered infallible but calls for the killing and subjugation of none Muslims.

 

Christianity has gone through a number of reinventions that cast off the old teachings. Islam has not.

 

But the bible has not changed since it was written has it? It has had an addition to it that 'made' Christianity but the Old Testament is still there. All that has changed is that some people now interpret it different, or decide to simply ignore whole swathes of it. Much like many Muslims ignore huge swathes of the Quran.

[RonJeremy 10]

I'd condemn them for different reasons.

The entire group for worshipping a monster, and the specific ones that committed violence for what they had done (and any who encouraged or supported that behaviour along with them).

How does that help?

 

---------- Post added 15-06-2015 at 15:36 ----------

 

 

I don't see any reason to answer them, they're irrelevant.

 

---------- Post added 15-06-2015 at 15:37 ----------

 

And I assume you're perfectly capable of answering them yourself, so rhetorical and redundant as well.

 

Then you will know why I asked and I know why you have ignored them. We can leave it at that.