Hillsborough document release

[Mecky 10]

I cannot think that this is a good road to go down. Fans of many clubs, Owls included, weighed into the hooligan culture of those days. That does not excuse overestimating ground capacity or inefficient management of stadium procedures. Thequestion has been asked many times, why Liverpool, with an undeniably bigger support than Forest, not allocated the Kop?

 

I see the focus has moved on to try and vilify Sheffield Wednesday Football Club.

 

In reply to you, it doesn't matter what the capacity of any ground is ticketless fans will always try to gain entrance. What procedures to the people have with thousands of fans pressing on them and driving them forwards? Liverpool fans were allocated the Leppings Lane area due to the direction of travel for most of their fans, likewise Forest fans travelling up.

 

Personally, I think if anyone is to blame it's the person who threatened to close down football clubs if they didn't control fans. This lead to clubs being forced into building higher walls and segregation fencing simply to survive.

 

http://blog.sfgate.com/soccer/2012/09/13/hillsborough-english-soccers-darkest-hour/

Edited June 5, 2014 by Mecky

[Chazndave 10]

I lost a member of my extended family at this event, I and my family bear no ill feelings towards the police who were damned whatever they did. We are sick to death of it being constantly dragged up with the aim of getting a result that suits some peoples agendas. My relative was no angel and we can all accept that the Liverpool fans played as big a part as anyone in the sad events of the day.

I would love to know about the "doctoring" of papers and wonder how much of it was actually re-writing with the benefit of hindsight?

There again I do not really want to know, I just want to put it behind me as do all our family but we are not being allowed to by these constant Inquiries, hearings, investigations, etc, etc.

I just hope and pray that at the end of this latest dragging up the people who are driving this on and on will for gods sake let it rest. I would love to move on so please let me. PLEASE.

 

Very well said.

[kazads53 10]

The Taylor report states there is no evidence to support the claim that hundreds of fans arrived without tickets. In fact, many Liverpool supporters provided their tickets and ticket stumps (!) that had not been taken from them as evidence.

 

I'm not a Liverpool fan.

 

You'll learn a lot about Heysel from simply reading wikipedia. It makes interesting reading.

 

---------- Post added 05-02-2014 at 23:31 ----------

 

 

The Taylor report agrees with you.

 

 

 

I have yet to see an independent report draw this conclusion. In fact the Taylor report refers to the exemplary behaviour of the fans as the tragedy unfolded.

 

If you know of evidence that supports this claim, I would like to hear it.

 

 

 

You're 100% correct there. That is a shameful truth.

 

I was at the game stayed to the very end as we were being picked up after the game...needless to say it was horendous,we walked down to hillsborough and got in about 2.45 south stand, on the way we passed hundreds and i mean hundreds of lfc fans still chucking beer down their necks commented on it..god knows what time they were hoping to get in..but the point i was going to make was that as we walked out of the ground on to penistone road where all the ambulaces were parked a large crowd of liverpool fans nearly knocked us over as they ran past shouting les get the f*****ing forest fans

 

That is the absoloute truth even after seeing the devastation inside the ground there were some drunken fans wanting a fight Ide love to know where these fans were that all behaved exemplary..I cant imagine how utterly terrible it has been for these families who lost loved ones..and so many things are to blame...but i would put every thing i own on the fact if drink wasnt involved it wouldnt have happened..because even for all the mistakes the police made they are not accountable for folks that are too drunk to listen and a vast majority of those that arrived late were..ask the guys on the turnstiles...

[Mr Bloom 10]

I was at the game stayed to the very end as we were being picked up after the game...needless to say it was horendous,we walked down to hillsborough and got in about 2.45 south stand, on the way we passed hundreds and i mean hundreds of lfc fans still chucking beer down their necks commented on it..god knows what time they were hoping to get in..but the point i was going to make was that as we walked out of the ground on to penistone road where all the ambulaces were parked a large crowd of liverpool fans nearly knocked us over as they ran past shouting les get the f*****ing forest fans

 

That is the absoloute truth even after seeing the devastation inside the ground there were some drunken fans wanting a fight Ide love to know where these fans were that all behaved exemplary..I cant imagine how utterly terrible it has been for these families who lost loved ones..and so many things are to blame...but i would put every thing i own on the fact if drink wasnt involved it wouldnt have happened..because even for all the mistakes the police made they are not accountable for folks that are too drunk to listen and a vast majority of those that arrived late were..ask the guys on the turnstiles...

 

Whose job is it then to police these drunken fans you talk about?

[kazads53 10]

Whose job is it then to police these drunken fans you talk about?

 

The police are there to keep law and order..but they are not there to be accountable for each and every drunken person that's down to themselves..no one makes them drink that amount..my point was and still is no drunken fans..disaster would have been avoided..because sober folks wouldn't have behaved this way...the point here is the police did many things wrong then tried to cover up....but for gods sake someone just please admit there were many drunk ticketless fans arrived very very late...and if their wernt any ticket less ones ide love to know where they intended putting them all...this should never have happened but many parties were involved including drunken fans...ask the locals

[Mr Bloom 10]

The police are there to keep law and order..but they are not there to be accountable for each and every drunken person that's down to themselves..no one makes them drink that amount..my point was and still is no drunken fans..disaster would have been avoided..because sober folks wouldn't have behaved this way...the point here is the police did many things wrong then tried to cover up....but for gods sake someone just please admit there were many drunk ticketless fans arrived very very late...and if their wernt any ticket less ones ide love to know where they intended putting them all...this should never have happened but many parties were involved including drunken fans...ask the locals

 

Perhaps they could have gone in to the empty pens at the Liverpool end, either side of of the ill-fated pens 3 and 4.

[Daven 10]

I cannot think that this is a good road to go down. Fans of many clubs, Owls included, weighed into the hooligan culture of those days. That does not excuse overestimating ground capacity or inefficient management of stadium procedures. Thequestion has been asked many times, why Liverpool, with an undeniably bigger support than Forest, not allocated the Kop?

 

And why did Kenny Dalglish encourage Liverpool supporters to go to the gates even if they didn't have a ticket ? This discussion I saw the week before on national TV. This undoubtedly added to the problem and has never been addressed.

Hang your head in shame Kenny.

 

---------- Post added 09-06-2014 at 19:56 ----------

 

The police are there to keep law and order..but they are not there to be accountable for each and every drunken person that's down to themselves..no one makes them drink that amount..my point was and still is no drunken fans..disaster would have been avoided..because sober folks wouldn't have behaved this way...the point here is the police did many things wrong then tried to cover up....but for gods sake someone just please admit there were many drunk ticketless fans arrived very very late...and if their wernt any ticket less ones ide love to know where they intended putting them all...this should never have happened but many parties were involved including drunken fans...ask the locals

Indeed - ask the locals. Those who witnessed disgraceful behaviour of drunken Liverpool fans who arrived late and were urinating (and defaecating) in local folks back yards on their drunken way to the match.

They know who they are but have remained very quiet about the whole affair. They know who they are - hope this has haunted them for the last 25 years.

 

---------- Post added 09-06-2014 at 19:56 ----------

 

Perhaps they could have gone in to the empty pens at the Liverpool end, either side of of the ill-fated pens 3 and 4.

 

Maybe they could have done but hindsight is a marvellous thing.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Daven

[Guest]

96 people can't just die because of the police making mistakes alone, the fans (not the ones who died) will have had to have played some part in that too, surely.

[Daven 10]

96 people can't just die because of the police making mistakes alone, the fans (not the ones who died) will have had to have played some part in that too, surely.

 

Indeed - let's hope that this enquiry reveals the full truth this time.

This will not be what the families of those who perished want to hear I'm afraid but the FULL truth must out now - it's well overdue.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Daven

[Gazza58 10]

]Indeed - let's hope that this enquiry reveals the full truth this time.[/b]This will not be what the families of those who perished want to hear I'm afraid but the FULL truth must out now - it's well overdue.

 

I very much doubt it will:(

[Mr Bloom 10]

 

Maybe they could have done but hindsight is a marvellous thing.

 

What did they need hindsight for?

Edited April 29, 2015 by Mr Bloom

[Daven 10]

What did they need hindsight for? They could see the empty pens and were watching them on cctv for long enough.

 

Hindsight? They didn't even need foresight!

 

Hindsight after the event.

Try not to focus all your blame on the police if you can - they were only one part of what went wrong on that terrible day.

 

---------- Post added 10-06-2014 at 13:58 ----------

 

96 people can't just die because of the police making mistakes alone, the fans (not the ones who died) will have had to have played some part in that too, surely.

Absolutely - they are NOT blameless. Neither is the FA, the Sheffield Wednesday management or those who decided fans should be cooped up behind barriers.

As I keep stating - hindsight is a marvellous thing.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Daven