Pay and display machine in Millhouses Park

[Planner1]

For the record I DO think it was silly to put the meters in and I firmly believe they will still end up costing them more in maintenance than they will ever make back. But the decision has been made and its pointless to moan about it now as at LEAST the cost to park is not that bad.

I think you might be surprised at how much these car parks actually return. From my knowledge, in the few months they have been in, they have already covered the cost of purchase and installation of the machines and any damage which has occurred.

[Jack_Russell]

I think you might be surprised at how much these car parks actually return. From my knowledge, in the few months they have been in, they have already covered the cost of purchase and installation of the machines and any damage which has occurred.

 

It will be interesting to see how much money is raised , and will it be spent on the maintenance and upkeep of the parks.

 

Will all money raised go towards the parks or will it be spent elsewhere ? We shall see.

[Number Six]

You tell me Chesterfield has these machines,

 

"These machines" being pay and display machines that give change - something that at various points in the thread you have have said don't exist, or at least if they do you've never heard of them, and then later acepted that they do exist but aren't approved for use. And it turns out they're in use 30 miles away? And neither you nor any of your colleagues are aware of them?

 

Innovations in parking must come thick and fast if you all missed this one. Or you don't really make any attempt to keep up to date, and just order the same thing as last time, from the company that provides the best perks. One or the other.

 

It also doesn't take away from the fact that they cost up to 3 times the cost of a normal machine. Sheffield has 450 of them, so the replacement cost would be millions. Is it worth millions of taxpayers money so you can get 10p change

 

Who said anything about replacing them all?

 

Is all your 'analaysis' so biases - why even imply replacing every machine in Sheffield vs one person getting change is a valid cost benefit obsevation?

[Number Six]

I think you might be surprised at how much these car parks actually return. From my knowledge, in the few months they have been in, they have already covered the cost of purchase and installation of the machines and any damage which has occurred.

 

So paying for a machine that gives change would be no bother then, would it?

 

If only anyone paid to know about such things actually did, eh?

[Planner1]

Innovations in parking must come thick and fast if you all missed this one. Or you don't really make any attempt to keep up to date, and just order the same thing as last time, from the company that provides the best perks. One or the other.

Do you seriously expect everyone involved in transport planning or highway engineering to know every aspect of every single part of that area of work? Councils have many teams comprising scores of people working on different aspects of highways, engineering and transport planning. They all have specialisms.

 

I am a transport planner, not a parking specialist. I asked two local authority parking services managers whether such machines were available, they had never heard of them. The supplier's website says they are one of the few machines in the world that give change. They are not common. The issue had come up several times on other threads and no-one mentioned seeing such a machine.

 

Local Authorities have stringent procurement procedures and teams of people who make sure they are followed. High value items like this would be procured via a framework contract, if one was in place, or by a competitive tendering process. there is no scope fo r"perks" in these processes.

 

 

Who said anything about replacing them all?

You'd have to do that in order for everyone who uses them to get change.

[Planner1]

So paying for a machine that gives change would be no bother then, would it?

 

The change giving machines are up to three times the cost of a normal one, the income would not yet have covered the cost of that type of machine.

 

As others have said, having machines that give change means keeping sufficient cash float in them, which means more visits from staff and quite a bit of cash in the machines. So, higher ongoing costs too.

[Number Six]

Do you seriously expect everyone involved in transport planning or highway engineering to know every aspect of every single part of that area of work? ... I asked two local authority parking services managers whether such machines were available, they had never heard of them..

 

No, I never said I expected everyone in the department to know everything about everything the department does.

 

I would expect that a parking services manager would know that it was possible to buy a pay and display machine that gives change. The fact that you asked two and neither of them knew they existed does nicely illustrate my point that we are not here dealing with perhaps the highest level of competence. Especially as they are in use in Chesterfield ...

[Number Six]

The change giving machines are up to three times the cost of a normal one, the income would not yet have covered the cost of that type of machine.

 

As others have said, having machines that give change means keeping sufficient cash float in them, which means more visits from staff and quite a bit of cash in the machines. So, higher ongoing costs too.

 

You say they cost "up to" three times as much. I am guessing that "up to" means that the dearest change machine is 3 times as much as the pay and display ones currently used, but there are cheaper options. However, we'll take your 3x figure.

 

If the current machines have paid for themselves in a few months, given that they were installed towards the end of a very wet summer, I'd imagine that the change giving machines would pay for themselves in less than a year.

 

Obviously they would take longer to pay for themselves. What I was saying was that they would comfortably pay for themselves within their life-cycle.

[Planner1]

No, I never said I expected everyone in the department to know everything about everything the department does.

 

I would expect that a parking services manager would know that it was possible to buy a pay and display machine that gives change. The fact that you asked two and neither of them knew they existed does nicely illustrate my point that we are not here dealing with perhaps the highest level of competence. Especially as they are in use in Chesterfield ...

Yes I found it disappointing they weren't aware, but, having got in touch with the supplier directly myself and having asked for local authority contacts where the machines were in use, I was given only Cornwall. So, my impression is they are not widespread and are not being marketed strongly.

 

Parking services managers have a lot to deal with and procuring new machines is only a small part of it. Local authorities also tend to be conservative in nature and tend to go for tried and trusted rather than new technology, which can be problematic.

 

There would have to be a really strong business case to justify spending between two and three times the cost of a standard piece of kit.

 

Giving change is a nice to have option, but I don't think it justifies the price tag.

[Planner1]

You say they cost "up to" three times as much. I am guessing that "up to" means that the dearest change machine is 3 times as much as the pay and display ones currently used, but there are cheaper options. However, we'll take your 3x figure.

 

If the current machines have paid for themselves in a few months, given that they were installed towards the end of a very wet summer, I'd imagine that the change giving machines would pay for themselves in less than a year.

 

Obviously they would take longer to pay for themselves. What I was saying was that they would comfortably pay for themselves within their life-cycle.

 

The costed options I was given by the supplier meant costs of between two and a quarter and three times the cost of a standard pay and display machine, plus higher running and operational costs.

 

Life isn't as simple as saying, oh yes it will pay for itself in the long run. The income from these machines is used for other purposes and overall budgets for departments are set with the income factored in. The annual income from the parks pay and display easily covers costs of two or three jobs. The income from the on and off street pay and display in the city pays for scores of jobs.

 

Decisions are not simple and many factors need to be considered. in my view, giving change is a nice to have option if it doesn't cost much. That is not the case at the moment. My view is that pay by phone looks a better option.