Todays educational standards

[venetodavid 10]

parents were more responsible in the past...

Education standards were maybe not better

 

I know what you are getting at but doesn't this contradict what you were saying earlier?

[BettyBooHoo! 10]

I know what you are getting at but doesn't this contradict what you were saying earlier?

 

It would do if the opportunitites available to young people today were not better than they were yester year. It's all about the change in attitudes over the years and the increase in people who are happy to go through life taking without giving.

What i'm trying to say is that if the people of times gone by had the same opportunities as the kids of today, then I think standards would have been better (if that makes sense!).

[venetodavid 10]

if the people of times gone by had the same opportunities as the kids of today, then I think standards would have been better (if that makes sense!).

 

I suppose it depends on what times you are referring to. In the not so distant past young people got free university places and grants to go there; now they have to pay fees and get into debt. During the sixties there was full employment; now young people face mass unemployment. At one stage, nationalised utilities didn't have to con their customers in order to make profits; now firms try to squeeze every penny out of us whilst giving huge payments to their bosses. In times gone by you could get a loan from a building society and buy a house; now the banks are less keen to help you out but pay their bosses millions in bonuses. My parents had it hard in the war and the fifties, but after that there was full-employment, proper contracts in the workplace and the hope of a pension; the NHS was a source of pride and ordinary people could either save up to buy a house of find council accomodation. I don't think young people have those opportunities to look forward to any more.

[BettyBooHoo! 10]

I suppose it depends on what times you are referring to. In the not so distant past young people got free university places and grants to go there; now they have to pay fees and get into debt. During the sixties there was full employment; now young people face mass unemployment. At one stage, nationalised utilities didn't have to con their customers in order to make profits; now firms try to squeeze every penny out of us whilst giving huge payments to their bosses. In times gone by you could get a loan from a building society and buy a house; now the banks are less keen to help you out but pay their bosses millions in bonuses. My parents had it hard in the war and the fifties, but after that there was full-employment, proper contracts in the workplace and the hope of a pension; the NHS was a source of pride and ordinary people could either save up to buy a house of find council accomodation. I don't think young people have those opportunities to look forward to any more.

 

I'm just refering to educational opportunities available now verses say 50 - 60 years ago and the attitudes of children and their families then verses now. Employment opportunities at the moment are dire.

[venetodavid 10]

I'm just refering to educational opportunities available now verses say 50 - 60 years ago and the attitudes of children and their families then verses now. Employment opportunities at the moment are dire.

 

Yes, and it's horrible that you have to have a degree for so many things and then they make it so hard for you to get a degree. I'm one of the lucky ones; I get to do it all online. There's no way I could afford it otherwise.

[Mecky 10]

And now more people attained a better level of education and are able to question government policies. That will never do will it? Better get rid of them.

[venetodavid 10]

And now more people attained a better level of education and are able to question government policies. That will never do will it? Better get rid of them.

 

What gets me is that, from the logic of the government, about students being a burden, you could say that my parents and grandparents paid for all these MP's to go to university but now it's their son and grandchild who want to go, we have to find the money ourselves.

[venetodavid 10]

A lot of the kids who have good/very good skills on a computer are self-taught in the main - interesting that they are quite willing to learn if it is interesting to them. And without being forced to.

 

Yes, that's my story. Rubbish at school but picked things up over the years. One thing about the eCommunications Degree I'm doing is that you realise some of the things you've picked up can be used in ways you didn't realise. In other cases, just learning a little bit more from someone else can top up what you've learnt on your own but open up new possibilities. Finally, I never had a reason to blog or use Facebook or make videos or whatever so the course gave an excuse to have a go.

 

At least when I say I don't like Facebook but I can see that it's very, very useful to other people or firms, etc, I've done it having had the experience of using it. Before the eComms course, I would have just dismissed it as rubbish.

[Cavegirl 10]

I went to a good university to do my degree between 2000-03 and a few years ago I returned as a postgraduate. As a postgrad you can earn extra cash by marking work done by first year undergrads. I was really shocked by the, what can only be termed, 'dumbing down' that had occurred over the 10 years or so that intervened.

 

As an undergrad I was expected to write a proper 2000 word academic essay, based upon wide reading, every week or two during term time. The undergrads whose work I marked were expected to participate in forum-style 'chat' of at least 150 words and did not need to reference academic literature, just give an indication that they'd read some of it. I couldn't believe it!

 

Whilst this new(ish) format had not completely replaced traditional essay writing (though getting undergrads to reference, structure and debate in essays properly after just 2-3 essays a term instead of 9-10 was an almost impossible task) I think this is probably the way it is heading in the future and I really don't believe that it's worth the £9000+ debt that Universities will soon be charging (unless you're studying to be a doctor, lawyer or other highly paid professional).

 

All I can hope is that more students wake up to this and use the leverage that their £9000 a year fees gives them to force the universities to provide the highest standards of education possible.

[venetodavid 10]

Whilst this new(ish) format had not completely replaced traditional essay writing (though getting undergrads to reference, structure and debate in essays properly after just 2-3 essays a term instead of 9-10 was an almost impossible task) I think this is probably the way it is heading in the future

 

Doesn't that just reflect that in the workplace you rarely have to write traditional essays but you do have to exchange a lot of short messages? I'm not saying it's better but that perhaps it is more appropriate to a society where a degree is all about getting a good job whilst education for the sake of education is just a luxury for the wealthy.

[shortcrust 10]

As an undergrad I was expected to write a proper 2000 word academic essay, based upon wide reading, every week or two during term time.....

 

This is what we're expected to do on my current course at Sheffield Uni, and it's what every other current student I know is expected to do.

[Cavegirl 10]

Doesn't that just reflect that in the workplace you rarely have to write traditional essays but you do have to exchange a lot of short messages? I'm not saying it's better but that perhaps it is more appropriate to a society where a degree is all about getting a good job whilst education for the sake of education is just a luxury for the wealthy.

 

You don't think that young people are already well trained in writing each other short messages before they come to university? Call me old fashioned, that's fine, but I thought that a degree was supposed to teach a person how to employ critical and lateral thinking, how to research and how to debate, understand and gain knowledge of the facts. There's far too much emphasis already, in my opinion, on the workplace in universities.

 

I do know that certain corporate managers like to come out every year and say that the students that they're employing are essentially useless to them blah blah blah, but they just want students to be trained for them by universities for free. Something I'm guessing they learned from the private health sector which just loves to take on NHS trained staff.

 

There are very few jobs out there that I can think of that require 3 years full time training in how to communicate through short messages before a person can begin to be a useful addition to the workplace. However, you'll never have the time or opportunity whilst at work to learn the research and debating skills that traditional essay writing offers.