Advanced driving course - worth the money?

[HarmOKnee 10]

Not all groups have a course of a set length, the Sheffield one does and that's what put me off going to it as work commitments meant that I wouldn't always be able to go on the evening their course ran. The one I went to was basically a case of pay the money for the course and then go driving with an observer as often or as infrequently as you want - they met every fortnight but you could arrange to go out in between as well. The examiner's comments to me when I told him the observers had never mentioned some of the things he'd picked up on was basically to say "well they're just volunteers, and it could be quite a long time since they did their advanced test". Fair enough, I appreciate that they give up their time for free, which is really good of them, but I do think there should be a way for the IAM to make sure the advice given by observers is somehow standardised so you know you're getting what you need to improve your driving to an advanced level. Otherwise it's just a waste of the observers' time as well as the driver's.

 

When I went to the Sheffield IAM it wasn't on a set evening, you arranged the driving sessions between yourself and the observer. My observer was Pat who was brilliant. She was also the senior observer trainer(she trains the observers). I didn't pay anything for the course, just the test - and IAM membership. If Pat is still there I highly recommend you get in touch with her.

[ceeferman 10]

You may not have passed your test but rest assured you are a better driver as a result of your Advanced Driving experience.

I don't agree with the guy who commented that observers only observe and don't train. What use would that be?

[Rupert_Baehr 10]

Not all groups have a course of a set length, the Sheffield one does and that's what put me off going to it...

 

The one I went to was basically a case of pay the money for the course and then go driving with an observer as often or as infrequently as you want - they met every fortnight but you could arrange to go out in between as well.

 

You may want to try another group. This 'Course' appears to be a new thing. - When I first went to IAM (to learn about advanced Motorcycling) I was allocated to an Observer and all training was done with him. I rode with him when we 'd arranged to ride together and on Sundays I rode with him during the group rides.

 

When I subsequently decided to do advanced Driving, I contacted the local car group who also allocated me to an Observer and I did all my driving with him. In each case (bike and car) I was debriefed after every ride/drive. The driving Observer gave me a written debrief (the 'tick box' sheet) and I was left in no doubt about what I'd done well and what I' needed to improve. I was, however, exected to make sure that I was familiar with the Highway Code and the contents of the PYADT manual. When my Observers thought I was ready to take the test, I wa given a cross-check by another Observer.

 

The examiner's comments to me when I told him the observers had never mentioned some of the things he'd picked up on was basically to say "well they're just volunteers, and it could be quite a long time since they did their advanced test". Fair enough,

 

That sounds anything but 'fair enough' to me. It might be a long time since they first did an advanced driving test, but they're not prevented form re-testing and indeed, the Observers in my group had Observer weekends specifically for the purpose of checking and training Observers.

 

... I do think there should be a way for the IAM to make sure the advice given by observers is somehow standardised so you know you're getting what you need to improve your driving to an advanced level. Otherwise it's just a waste of the observers' time as well as the driver's.

 

There is. It's known as 'The System'.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Rupert_Baehr

[HarmOKnee 10]

It seems that everyone who's been with the Sheffield IAM has had a very positive (and quality) experience. Maybe the Sheffield one is the best

[bullerboY 10]

I'm not sure what tick box sheet you're referring to - the group I went to had a feedback sheet where they put numbers 1-5 (1 being the best) to show what standard you were at with the various aspects they observed. I had mostly 1s and a few 2s for the majority of the drives I went on in the last couple of months, so they said I was ready to do the test. I don't think I drove any differently during my test, but the examiner picked up on an awful lot of things which I'd never been told were wrong by anyone who observed me.

 

I have said several times that it's very good of the volunteer observers to give up their time, and I know a lot of people have had good experiences with the IAM observers, so I do think that on the whole they do a good job. It just so happens though that my personal experience is that I wasn't given the necessary advice to improve my driving to the advanced test standard, hence me wondering if it's worth going to a different group. I don't think this is unreasonable, I didn't come on here to get into an argument about whether my driving is good enough to pass the test because obviously it isn't and I don't have a problem with accepting that. I do have a problem with wasting time and money if it's not going to help me improve my driving, so I was hoping for advice from people who've found it helpful to go to a particular IAM group or something else similar. You haven't actually said what your interest is in this, are you an IAM volunteer? Examiner? Someone who's done the IAM course? I presume you must be one of these, because otherwise I don't know why you'd be commenting on here, so if you have any helpful feedback that would be great. To be honest though, the things you've said so far have just come across as argumentative and not actually constructive, so please don't waste any more of your time if you just want an argument. That's not what I'm here for.

 

As far as insurance goes, I'm going on the information I've been given. I checked out the cost of insurance with and without the IAM certificate by speaking directly to the IAM's insurance team, who said they couldn't beat my current premium even if I had the certificate (they said it's because I was involved in an accident a year ago, and apparently they don't insure anyone who has been in an accident in the last 3 years, even if it's a non-fault one as mine was) and to my current insurer and several others who said they don't offer a reduced price for IAM members.

Sorry if you misunderstood me,I am not trying to cause an argument but to offer you what you asked in your first post.My qualifications are advanced motorcyclist,advanced car driver and advanced hgv driver,I have never had an accident and hold very clean licences,I hope that gives me a little crediblity and no I am not a trainer.Try a bit more shopping around with the insurance Im sure youwill find one that will do a discount.A little bit more constructive advice,you say the examiner said you wernt checking your mirrors,well,move them out of line so you have to move your head to check.No hard feelings I hope.

[aztimms 10]

I was browsing this site and this topic caught my eye - so much so I had to sign up just to post a reply!

 

Did IAM test back in '94 with sheffield IAM. After several months of obesrved runs with several observers I passed first time. With regard to mirrors - please do not move them to show you are looking! The examiner is not simply recording wether you glance at a mirrors but wether you make effective use of them i.e. do you act safely & sensibly on what you see and build that information into your driving plans. The proof is in the pudding as they say and you must - in the examiners opinion - have acted in a way that they wouldn't have done given the following traffic situation. This might be in the use/timing of signals, use of road position, timing of braking or something else.

 

The examiner will expect constant use of the IPSGA (Take/Use/GiveInformation - Position - Speed -Gear - Acceleration) system togeather with evidence of good planning prooving you not only acting on what is seen but are considering what you can't see & what may happen next (antcipation).

 

Remember its mirror signal - mirror position - mirror brake - mirror turn/accalerate. ie mirrors before signalling & changing speed/direction - if doing all 3 - looking once will not be enough!

 

Remember to brake (progessively) then change gear then steer systematically & seperately (whatever your views on being able to brake & change gear at the same time aka "overlapping" advanced drivers don't approve of it - its brakes to slow gears to go. The IAM also require "pull push" steering which while I would agree with another poster on this thread, is unsuitable for motor racing (speed before safety on race tracks) it is still the best technique for safe road driving. Difficulties with the technique usually indicate incorrect driving seat position.

 

I do hope you will continue with your advanced driving and give commentary a try eg " Children on left - mirrors - could run into road so - mirrors & postioning out to pass wide & reducing speed - down to 3rd for flexibility - mirrors - now accelerating away from hazard..." Start by just calling out road signs & stating where the road goes in the distance (shows how far ahead you look) then build up the detail. "Road goes up then bends left with a change of road surface (examiners like you to notice the surface) - junction left sign -slow paint marking..."etc.

 

At rospa they grade test passes as bronze silver & gold. You would probably have attained a bronze pass as IAM minimum pass is at least a rospa silver but no one wants only to win bronze!

If your not turning in assesment sheets full of 1's your bound to be borderline - do you want to scrape through or pass with ease? just ask what your observers think you should do to up those 2's into 1's

 

Best of luck

Edited March 15, 2011 by aztimms
improvment

[DT Ralge 10]

That's a good first post, aztimms!

It's a shame more drivers don't consider they could learn a lot from a refresher session whether or not they end up taking an advanced test.

[bullerboY 10]

aztimms,seeing this is your first post I will tell you it is rude to shout in capital letters.The mirrors can be adjusted slightly out of position at helps the examiner to see you are using them correctly.As you can see I do have a little experience of driving having done so for 53yrs without a accident.I took my first advanced test in 1978 and the rest in subsequent yrs,and yes I do drive in the manner I was taught.what you said is all explained in the police manual called Roadcraft of which you will have read.It appears to me that all RoSpa drivers think that they are the creme de la creme,what does it matter as long as we are all safe drivers.

[DT Ralge 10]

aztimms,seeing this is your first post I will tell you it is rude to shout in capital letters.The mirrors can be adjusted slightly out of position at helps the examiner to see you are using them correctly.As you can see I do have a little experience of driving having done so for 53yrs without a accident.I took my first advanced test in 1978 and the rest in subsequent yrs,and yes I do drive in the manner I was taught.what you said is all explained in the police manual called Roadcraft of which you will have read.It appears to me that all RoSpa drivers think that they are the creme de la creme,what does it matter as long as we are all safe drivers.

 

Why on earth position the mirror(s) "out of position"? (This (move your mirror) suggestion, in my view, stems from rank poor learner instructors who are not teaching to drive but teaching to pass a test.)

 

How about turning your head to your mirrors because you want to look effectively in a safe driving career - most danger frequently comes from the rear. Looking effectively and acting on what you see allows the examiner to identify effective use. Looking, being seen to look but not seeing and not acting on what you see is another matter altogether and, in my book, generally not worthy of a pass at any standard, let alone "advanced" standard.

 

RoSPA drivers at Gold and/or Diploma standard are recognised as having attained the highest civilian (non blue-light) driving standard. Keeping up with this standard day-in-day-out is a different matter, perhaps.

 

It matters if drivers are aware of the higher standard of driving involved in "advanced" driving and strive to maintain this standard. The L-test standard is no more than a minimum standard of competence and many own up to dropping below this standard consistently.

Edited March 6, 2011 by DT Ralge

[aztimms 10]

Thank you to bullerboy for the not shouting tip - capitals now removed (though I feel sure [he?] will agree some aspects of road safety are worth shouting about).

 

I doubt one can drive so safely for a staggering 53(well done!) accident free years with ones mirrors out of position? - you might as well just turn round & look directly out of the back screen each time (losing touch with the road ahead & probably drifting with the steering). Many L-test candidates, I'm informed, are so intent on showing off their mirror looking they lose concentration & commit some other error & fail. It is I'm affraid one of those long standing driving test myth's along with "they don't pass anyone on thursday afternoons" or that "no one passes once the test centre has met it's monthly pass quoter".

 

I stand by my advice.

 

Best regards to one & all.

Edited March 10, 2011 by aztimms

[aztimms 10]

Have now consulted with several examiners & the result is:- no do not move mirror out of position - if using all mirrors correctly you'd have to move head to check door mirrors anyway - examiner will spot it. Commentary was recomended but ultimately they say "I know whats behind & what should be done about it so look to see if candidate does what I expect - If yes the are using their mirrors, if no then the're not.

NB Incorrect interior mirror adj. is a cockpit drill fault in any case is it not?

[sedith 19]

Institute of Advanced Motorists ... absolute nonsense! Good driving comes with age and experience, not with some worthless certificate that achieves nothing.