Jack Straw reveals Venables alleged sexual offence

[danot]

That's as maybe, but that assessment isn't for you to make, especially on the basis of an allegation.

I'm not assessing it, i'm discussing it.. with you.. Sometimes you baffle me.

[Alien]

yeah guilford four & Birmingham 6 to name a few.

 

But what your really wanting to say is

 

you dont really care because its not effecting you.

 

Or...I do care but yes, it's not really affecting anyone other than those directly related . As people have pointed out it seems to be affecting you in a totally irrational manner. It's almost as if it's just that lil bit too personnel with you? There are others that seem to be going along with you I'll grant but they don't seem to be showing the same sort of passion that your portraying.

 

It could be argued that those that think you're a little fuzzy in the head should have more sympathy with your issues... being hand-wringing tree huggers as they are.

 

Many mouths on here who would gladly see a child put to death "legally"....my guess is they'd bottle if asked to carry it out. (It's ok you all don't have to rush to volunteer because it just ain't the same as doing it for real)

[happyhippy]

Because hes attempting/preparing to be released and his various victims famillys are on tv saying why they think its an insult

 

The two matters aren't related. Sutcliffe (or Coonan now?) will never be released, I reckon. You know that as well as I do. He's just asked for when he might be eligible to apply for parole.

 

Venables and Thompson already have been released, and one has been detained, and that detention has been made public.

[riggs151]

Or...I do care but yes, it's not really affecting anyone other than those directly related . As people have pointed out it seems to be affecting you in a totally irrational manner. It's almost as if it's just that lil bit too personnel with you? There are others that seem to be going along with you I'll grant but they don't seem to be showing the same sort of passion that your portraying.

 

It could be argued that those that think you're a little fuzzy in the head should have more sympathy with your issues... being hand-wringing tree huggers as they are.

 

Many mouths on here who would gladly see a child put to death "legally"....my guess is they'd bottle if asked to carry it out. (It's ok you all don't have to rush to volunteer because it just ain't the same as doing it for real)

 

wow ALIEN dare i say someone who kinda got what im saying? maybe?

 

My point is i dont understand, and i believe its what we have lost, this attitude of just because it doesnt effect me ill have an opinion that is totally opposite to if it effected me. I have not thought about those opposed being hand-wringing tree huggers? curious?

 

I have had lots of e-mails but the best said these people against would want help from any corner should they go through it.

 

This is me, i see someone getting attacked and ide go help, because that is what i would want if i was being attacked.

However the reality is so many people watch or walk past and when challenged at best they say They were just about to help but then provide a reason why. But heres my point would they be ok with the same if they were being attacked? No they would want all the help in the world. It disgusts me, its selfish and arrogant.

[happyhippy]

I'm not assessing it, i'm discussing it.. with you.. Sometimes you baffle me.

 

You've quoted an allegation, and have also assessed the earlier conviction as having a sexual nature, and therefore relevant. As we are still talking about allegations, then neither of us can make a judgement, or to opine, or to assess it.

[riggs151]

The two matters aren't related. Sutcliffe (or Coonan now?) will never be released, I reckon. You know that as well as I do. He's just asked for when he might be eligible to apply for parole.

 

Venables and Thompson already have been released, and one has been detained, and that detention has been made public.

 

Your right, i dont believe that hell be let out ever, i think the decision is already made, however that doesnt help the jutice view? that its fair? hmmmm

 

But Venables and Thompson never got a real prison term like an adult would, yes they were 10 but my god their crime was the worst of the worst, they got care, the same as a child without a family. Their age and crime was such an exception, 8 years in care i dont think was enough! and i think well find with Venables it clearly wasnt

Edited March 9, 2010 by riggs151

[happyhippy]

But Venables and Thompson never got a real prison term like an adult would,

 

Why might that have been?

 

yes they were 10

 

Bang on the money!

 

but my god their crime was the worst of the worst, they got care, the same as a child without a family. Their age and crime was such an exception, 8 years in care i dont think was enough! and i think well find with Venables it clearly wasnt

 

The crime was as abominable as it gets. There isn't a person who disagrees. They got much more than 'care' though. Equally, children grow, and children can change. Mary Bell?

 

It's not the same as an adult with deep rooted predilections.

[danot]

You've quoted an allegation, and have also assessed the earlier conviction as having a sexual nature, and therefore relevent . As we are still talking about allegations, then neither of us can make a judgement, or to opine, or to assess it.

The only person making assessments or should I say, assumptions here is you, you're jumping too far in front of yourself again HP. I never made any assessment of the sexual aspects of the J B murder, how can I, when the assessments were made many many years ago. Niether do I claim that the J B murder and the current offence are both relevent to the case, I merely spoke of the conditions that he's bound under which might be rlevent to the alleged photo's and the sexual aspects of the J B murder. Slow down a bit HP, read the posts properly.

[Alien]

wow ALIEN dare i say someone who kinda got what im saying? maybe?

 

My point is i dont understand, and i believe its what we have lost, this attitude of just because it doesnt effect me ill have an opinion that is totally opposite to if it effected me. I have not thought about those opposed being hand-wringing tree huggers? curious?

 

I have had lots of e-mails but the best said these people against would want help from any corner should they go through it.

 

This is me, i see someone getting attacked and ide go help, because that is what i would want if i was being attacked.

However the reality is so many people watch or walk past and when challenged at best they say They were just about to help but then provide a reason why. But heres my point would they be ok with the same if they were being attacked? No they would want all the help in the world. It disgusts me, its selfish and arrogant.

 

I understand your dilemma...what I don't understand is your irrationality...we were all horrified by the events of the past regarding this case but to assume that you take the moral high ground is quite frankly arrogant? This situation is complex...very complex and any form of irrationality would be a hindrance to due process.

Due process is about facts, rationality...not sentimentality, that's for the family to deal with.

As for people helping?..we're all different, we're all afraid, we are insecure as a society. I don't blame criminality for our insecurities I blame media, media is the cesspit that feeds our fears. On the whole though I think you're wrong, many do go out of their way to help...many don't. I would never be so arrogant as to ask them why or why not.

I don't believe in evil, nor Satan or God....those two kids did what they did because of a tragic train of events they lost control over. It isn't a matter of excusing their crime, it's inexcusable. For me it's a matter of hope and that hope has more to do with at least a glimmer of them understanding what they did rather than us pathetically wondering if they get DVD in their cell.

What you implied in your above statement is that society is to blame by turning a blind eye and lets itself down. We let James Bulger down because as a collective we let those kids down well before the day they committed a murder. You can't take the weight of the world on your shoulders it's far to heavy...unless you want to **** your brain up that is.

Regardless of what has happened recently Venables would be better off in a secure unit IMO...I believe he must be pretty messed up and that would be reason enough.

Edited March 9, 2010 by Alien

[boyfriday]

I understand your dilemma...what I don't understand is your irrationality...we were all horrified by the events of the past regarding this case but to assume that you take the moral high ground is quite frankly arrogant? This situation is complex...very complex and any form of irrationality would be a hindrance to due process.

Due process is about facts, rationality...not sentimentality, that's for the family to deal with.

As for people helping?..we're all different, we're all afraid, we are insecure as a society. I don't blame criminality for our insecurities I blame media, media is the cesspit that feeds our fears. On the whole though I think you're wrong, many do go out of their way to help...many don't. I would never be so arrogant as to ask them why or why not.

I don't believe in evil, nor Satan or God....those two kids did what they did because of a tragic train of events they lost control over. It isn't a matter of excusing their crime, it's inexcusable. For me it's a matter of hope and that hope has more to do with at least a glimmer of them understanding what they did rather than us pathetically wondering if they get DVD in their cell.

What you implied in your above statement is that society is to blame by turning a blind eye and lets itself down. We let James Bulger down because as a collective we let those kids down well before the day they committed a murder. You can't take the weight of the world on your shoulders it's far to heavy...unless you want to **** your brain up that is.

Regardless of what has happened recently Venables would be better off in a secure unit IMO...I believe he must be pretty messed up and that would be reason enough.

 

Stellar post Alien.