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[Streamline 10]

Which you know was cancelled, which is why you said "meant to be a BNP meeting," Why do you think they bothered turning up? Do you think it could have been to send out a clear message to the owner of the venue that this is what he could expect if he ever allowed them a stage again in the future? Bully tactics? Surely its not like the UAF to act in such a way?

 

Indeed it's bullying and typical.

[Wildcat 10]

You gave me a biased link, equivalent to the BNP homepage that states quite the opposite and you also include bloggers (booted out members of the BNP with an axe to grind) as your sources of truth.

 

Will you accept the BNP version of events on their website? I doubt you will. What I asked you for was independent proof of events as your UAF site describes and you can't come up with any.

 

The question is why do you believe the BNP version of events?

 

You can be "affiliated", associated, or be a member of any organisation and not deal financially with them, yet UAF are actively funded by the organisations I have mentioned and they all have clear links to Hamas. Why do you do business with them and accept money if you know this... its a bit like the BNP taking money from Gaddafi is it not?

 

You have not provided any evidence of links between Hamas and UAF which was your original point.

 

The MCB represents 500 separate organisations, it would be amazing if they didn't have some parts that have conditional support for Hamas. They are afterall a resistance organisation set up in defence against an occupier.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/24/islam-politics

 

Getting in to a debate about whether they are terrorist or not is really for another thread, but it is about as meaningful as describing the ANC or the PCF in occupied France as terrorist.

 

I don't get ideas and we have been here before,

 

Well why do you keep make personal allegations then?

 

If PSC are so impartial and anti-racist then why did the SWP join forces with them and attack an anti-war demonstrator in Sheffield? Its no use saying they shouldn't have, I already knew that.

 

It is hard to tell from the pictures what is going on. But it looks like some people on the demo took exception to the placard. So what? It tells us something about what the individuals there on the day thought. It says nothing about what PSC stands for and even less about UAF.

 

The groups I have cited are clearly not opposed to terrorism in case you can't read the links. The government have even broken relations with the Muslim Council of Britain over their support for Hamas, George Galloway was banned from Canada for funding Hamas and the SWP have made it plain who they support on the streets of Sheffield.

 

Your designation of Hamas as terrorist is too simplistic. The IDF are as bad, in fact arguably worse because they are the ones in control of the situation.

 

Yes it would be absurd to say it never happens and there is no other reason than to single out India and Pakistan as they seem to be the largest in numbers followed by eastern Europe. Its not dubious by any means, only in your mind as you would like to paint me as having an agenda. You constantly skirt the issues that make you feel uncomfortable and are very selective in your answers... tell me that these organisations have no links whatsoever to Hamas with a bit of proof for a change.

 

Who is skirting issues? It is you that has made allegations about health tourism on the basis that any nurse would tell me what you are saying is true.

 

Well here is a report telling you, you are wrong.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/may/14/nhs.society

 

And it is not as if people in the UK don't go abroad for hospital treatment. You can get a gastric band for under half the price in India as the UK for example.

http://www.treatmentabroad.net/medical-tourism/news/?EntryId82=114496

 

What is your purpose on this thread? It appears to be an attempt to distract from criticisms of the BNP by attacking me personally and any group that seeks to expose the BNP for what they stand for. You say you don't support the BNP, but your behaviour over the last few weeks says otherwise.

 

To bring this back on track, then what are your views of anyone that would vote for a party set up by a Nazi , led by a holocaust denier, and White Supremacist and anti-semite?

[Wildcat 10]

Indeed it's bullying and typical.

 

The cameraman's behaviour was indeed threatening.

 

And yes it is typical of the BNP to accuse others of being threatening, like Simon Darby accusing a Bishop of bullying the other day for speaking out against the politics of hatred that the BNP stand for.

Edited March 31, 2009 by Wildcat

[Wildcat 10]

Which you know was cancelled, which is why you said "meant to be a BNP meeting," Why do you think they bothered turning up? Do you think it could have been to send out a clear message to the owner of the venue that this is what he could expect if he ever allowed them a stage again in the future? Bully tactics? Surely its not like the UAF to act in such a way?

 

Considering the venue was being refurbished there was never any possibility of the BNP holding their meeting there.

 

The question has to be asked what were the BNP doing there, when they knew a UAF demonstration was planned? And what was the BNP cameraman doing, if not being threatening?

 

It shows considerable restraint that no one punched him during that clip.

[Rudders 10]

The question is why do you believe the BNP version of events?

 

I never said I did entirely but then again its not so clear cut and you cannot tell me that the UAF are completely innocent in all this. Surely the press would be sticking up for you and would print the facts as you see them on your UAF site but they don’t. In fact no-where else does. Can you see why I am a bit suspect?

 

You have not provided any evidence of links between Hamas and UAF which was your original point.

 

I think you just choose to ignore the links I gave you, the facts won’t go away you know.

 

The MCB represents 500 separate organisations, it would be amazing if they didn't have some parts that have conditional support for Hamas. They are afterall a resistance organisation set up in defence against an occupier.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/24/islam-politics

 

Getting in to a debate about whether they are terrorist or not is really for another thread, but it is about as meaningful as describing the ANC or the PCF in occupied France as terrorist.

 

The MCB give you money and it’s up to the government if they see them as a destabilising and terrorist threat, not me.

 

They are not a resistance organisation, they have stated that their aim is to kill all Jews and annihilate the state of Israel. How can Israel seek peace with them? That is blatant fascism and racism. Something you are supposed to be against.

 

Well why do you keep make personal allegations then?

 

I don’t, I seek answers from you.

 

It is hard to tell from the pictures what is going on. But it looks like some people on the demo took exception to the placard. So what? It tells us something about what the individuals there on the day thought. It says nothing about what PSC stands for and even less about UAF.

Can’t you see what is going on? I’ll tell you so what... a peaceful protester was attacked by a supposed anti-fascist rally by PSC/SWP members for decrying not only Hamas but the IDF as well, it shows tempers flared that day by pro-Palestinian supporters and in one instant the pro-Palestinian rally lost its cause and its meaning because it couldn’t help but become violent towards an innocent woman. I think that’s despicable and it says everything about what PSC/SWP stand for and all these close links that feed the UAF who take their money puts them in bed with these people.

You didn’t mind saying how bad the BNP were for taking money out of Libya earlier on and I see no difference here.

Your designation of Hamas as terrorist is too simplistic. The IDF are as bad, in fact arguably worse because they are the ones in control of the situation.

It is not my designation of Hamas being a terrorist organisation, that honour was granted them by the international community.

Who is skirting issues? It is you that has made allegations about health tourism on the basis that any nurse would tell me what you are saying is true.

Well here is a report telling you, you are wrong.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/may/14/nhs.society

And it is not as if people in the UK don't go abroad for hospital treatment. You can get a gastric band for under half the price in India as the UK for example.

http://www.treatmentabroad.net/medical-tourism/news/?EntryId82=114496

A link for a link then wildcat:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1572145/One-in-five-babies-born-to-foreign-mother-in-UK.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7215624.stm

You skirt the issues on the UAF/SWP links with Hamas. Of course you can go anywhere in the world for medical surgery and you will pay for it, we have a free NHS here so maybe that is why we make a good destination to head for.

What is your purpose on this thread? It appears to be an attempt to distract from criticisms of the BNP by attacking me personally and any group that seeks to expose the BNP for what they stand for. You say you don't support the BNP, but your behaviour over the last few weeks says otherwise.

What exactly is your purpose on the thread here? I think I ask you some awkward questions that you don’t like to answer. I am here because like you, I can be. Is there any reason I shouldn’t be?

To bring this back on track, then what are your views of anyone that would vote for a party set up by a Nazi , led by a holocaust denier, and White Supremacist and anti-semite?

My view is that people have the right to vote for who they wish and legal political parties have the right to meet without facing intimidation no matter how distasteful I find them. I also think that organisations like yours would be far more effective if they cut ties with certain organisations that I have mentioned, I also think the UAF gives the BNP a higher profile and more coverage as a result of your activities. You are their biggest advertisement.

[Rudders 10]

Considering the venue was being refurbished there was never any possibility of the BNP holding their meeting there.

 

It seems odd that a meeting was arranged in a place undergoing refurbishment in the first place don’t you think? They seem to feel that the owner of the venue was threatened with his alcohol licence if he let it go ahead.

 

The question has to be asked what were the BNP doing there, when they knew a UAF demonstration was planned? And what was the BNP cameraman doing, if not being threatening?

 

It shows considerable restraint that no one punched him during that clip.

 

I think the question that should be asked is what were your group doing there when you planned your demonstration around their meeting and venue when you were well aware that it had been cancelled. Why did you bother turning up at all?

 

You say it shows considerable restraint them not punching a BNP cameraman filming them but I know your organisation do exactly the same to them and as you keep harping back to the youtube link that Streamline put on, by your own admission they were just some distressed looking middle aged women. I think they had a little more firepower from the press reports.

Edited April 1, 2009 by Rudders

[Wildcat 10]

I never said I did entirely but then again its not so clear cut and you cannot tell me that the UAF are completely innocent in all this. Surely the press would be sticking up for you and would print the facts as you see them on your UAF site but they don’t. In fact no-where else does. Can you see why I am a bit suspect?

 

You don't come across as a bit suspect, more that you have taken the BNP story hook line and sinker.

 

I think you just choose to ignore the links I gave you, the facts won’t go away you know.

 

You haven't presented any evidence of UAF having links with Hamas, except through some of their supporters. Something that is inevitable when the country and opinion is fiercely divided on the issue.

 

The MCB give you money and it’s up to the government if they see them as a destabilising and terrorist threat, not me.

 

It strikes me as unusual that you are prepared to defer your own judgment to that of the Govt.

 

They are not a resistance organisation, they have stated that their aim is to kill all Jews and annihilate the state of Israel. How can Israel seek peace with them? That is blatant fascism and racism. Something you are supposed to be against.

 

They state many things, admittedly sometimes contradictory but importantly including that they will negotiate with Israel under the terms of the Oslo agreement for a 2 state solution.

 

I don’t, I seek answers from you.

 

Well they come across as groundless accusations.

 

Can’t you see what is going on? I’ll tell you so what... a peaceful protester was attacked by a supposed anti-fascist rally by PSC/SWP members for decrying not only Hamas but the IDF as well, it shows tempers flared that day by pro-Palestinian supporters and in one instant the pro-Palestinian rally lost its cause and its meaning because it couldn’t help but become violent towards an innocent woman. I think that’s despicable and it says everything about what PSC/SWP stand for and all these close links that feed the UAF who take their money puts them in bed with these people.

You didn’t mind saying how bad the BNP were for taking money out of Libya earlier on and I see no difference here.

 

It beggars belief that you can't tell qualitatively the difference between what a handful of people on a local demonstration and the actions of the leader of the BNP.

 

It is not my designation of Hamas being a terrorist organisation, that honour was granted them by the international community.

 

Actually it hasn't unless by international community you mean the US, Canada and a handful of other countries.

 

The international community is far from united on the issue.

 

A link for a link then wildcat:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1572145/One-in-five-babies-born-to-foreign-mother-in-UK.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7215624.stm

You skirt the issues on the UAF/SWP links with Hamas. Of course you can go anywhere in the world for medical surgery and you will pay for it, we have a free NHS here so maybe that is why we make a good destination to head for.

 

I have answered questions directly.

 

I don't see the relevance of your links to what you were saying. You were talking about health tourism and a drain on our NHS the links you have provided are to reports about immigrants having babies, these will be people contributing to the economy. People that even migrationwatch concedes contribute a net gain to the economy from the taxes they pay.

 

What exactly is your purpose on the thread here? I think I ask you some awkward questions that you don’t like to answer. I am here because like you, I can be. Is there any reason I shouldn’t be?

 

Who is being evasive now. My intention is to point out what the BNP stands for. Yours appears to be to defend the BNP.

 

My view is that people have the right to vote for who they wish and legal political parties have the right to meet without facing intimidation no matter how distasteful I find them. I also think that organisations like yours would be far more effective if they cut ties with certain organisations that I have mentioned, I also think the UAF gives the BNP a higher profile and more coverage as a result of your activities. You are their biggest advertisement.

 

Of course people have the right to vote for who they wish, no one is seeking to take that away. Part of democracy however is about the freedom of speech and freedom of protest something you appear to have a problem with.

 

Organisations like UAF cutting ties with muslim organisations to please you would defeat the whole object of creating a united front against fascist political parties and it would be a rejection of support to the current target of their bile.

 

The BNP get coverage without UAF needing to intervene, the coverage they do produce reveals what the BNp really stand for and like all fascist parties historically what they stand for is not what they say they stand for. Your last point again is personal. You look at my posting history and you will see I am responding to what others have said not initiating these discussions.

[Wildcat 10]

It seems odd that a meeting was arranged in a place undergoing refurbishment in the first place don’t you think? They seem to feel that the owner of the venue was threatened with his alcohol licence if he let it go ahead.

 

It does seem odd. Like the BNP engineered this whole thing as a publicity stunt.

 

I think the question that should be asked is what were your group doing there when you planned your demonstration around their meeting and venue when you were well aware that it had been cancelled. Why did you bother turning up at all?

 

Because they had organised a protest there. Simple, and why not? Are you saying protests should be banned?

 

You say it shows considerable restraint them not punching a BNP cameraman filming them but I know your organisation do exactly the same to them and as you keep harping back to the youtube link that Streamline put on, by your own admission they were just some distressed looking middle aged women. I think they had a little more firepower from the press reports.

 

How do you know UAF do exactly the same thing? In the video it wasn't them aggressively filming. I have never seen behaviour like the BNP cameraman's on any demonstration I have been on. Even the police keep their a sensible distance when they are filming demonstrators. Neither do UAF have UAFTV, and neither do they have anything like redwatch to post their hit list film footage on.

 

So you are now admitting the BNP version of events makes no sense?

[PeoplesVoice 10]

I agree. I shouldn't have said that. I withdraw my remark and apologise unconditionally. Sorry PV.

 

Thanks Berlin. Apology accepted.

[PeoplesVoice 10]

May I say 'Good Luck!' to Tom Redmond, the BNP candidate for the Temple Newsam ward of Leeds City Council, in the by-election tomorrow. I spent a part of yesterday meeting Tom, his lovely wife, and Leeds BNP Councillor Chris Beverley who are working hard maximising votes at the moment. The entire ward has been canvassed and leafleted resulting in many inquiries.

 

Talking with these decent people answered many questions about the party, erasing any doubts I may have had. BNP members in the flesh are completely the opposite of the media stereotypes of unintelligent hate-filled fanatics. UAF have leafleted a small part of the ward demanding that people mustn't vote Nazi. These middle class degenerates have found their message of hate rejected by most voters. When my mum asked one long-haired student type why they (UAF) don't stand in the election themselves he replied "I don't believe in elections - they are not democratic"! So they don't even deny that they are fascists...

[KenH 10]

These middle class degenerates ...

 

 

You know, you nearly got away with it!

 

It's now past 12 on the 1st of April and I nominate you are the best April Fool'sa day wind-up ever! You just couldn't resist that last sillyness at the very last moment that has exposed you could you? Most of the other stuff leading up to the big day, all that stuff about BNP members not being skinheads, whilst clearly rubbish, was believable. But today you went that bit far with "middle class degenerates" and I expose you.

 

What do you have planned for next year?

[joshtetley 10]

I beleive there is a by election in southey ward this month and the local BNP will be doing their best to get the vote out.Its on the BNP website.