Robbing the rich to give to the poor

[Little Buzz 10]

The price paid for labour is determined by supply of labour and demand for labour - the same as any other price.

 

So if your skill is pushing a mop, you are competing in a market with lots of supply (most people can push a mop) - so the price paid for your skill (wages) is low.

 

If your skill is being able to play football to a very high standard there is much less supply - by definition only a few people can be amongst the best footballers in the world. The very limited supply coupled with the high demand makes the price paid for the labour (wages) high. If you are not such a good footballer - second division standard for example - there is more supply, so the wages are lower.

[Stan Tamudo 10]

But what if your a multi talented,highly intelligent entrepreneur like Allen Stamford.Explain

supply and demand in his case?.

[Ms Macbeth 76]

ive got 3 kidz under the age of 5 living in a falling apart council house living on less than a 100 quid a week tell me thatz fair my mum died when i was 16 left with no family or no chance of taking my gcses!

 

You won't be in that situation for ever - you'll eventually get back to work. You could do gcse's part time now? I did my O levels (as they were then) when my kids were young, I left school at 15. And if there isn't an earner in your home (you don't mention a partner) then don't you get your rent and council tax paid? Thats about another £80 a week. Someone who is working full time, as mel says on £11/12k a year, will be paying income tax and probably has to pay rent and council tax as well. Won't leave them much better off than someone in your situation.

 

I think the best thing for workers on low wages would be to raise the personal allowances to around £10k - no-one earning less would pay any income tax. Anyone on mega money (say £250k+) could start to pay a little more - and increase it again at £1m.

[Greybeard 10]

Ooh ! a revolution ?? Can I work the guillotine ?

[Little Buzz 10]

But what if your a multi talented,highly intelligent entrepreneur like Allen Stamford.Explain

supply and demand in his case?.

 

I don't know much about Allen Stanford (and less about Allen Stamford) but as I understand he ran some sort of investment company which is alleged to have operated fraudulently.

 

If this is the case then the company has been selling things (investments) for more than they are worth by misrepresenting them.

 

Without knowing more about it I can't say more than that - but in most cases of fraud it is found that the market has been manipulated.

 

Being self-employed Mr Stanford was able to pay himself whatever he liked as the supply of people he deemed qualified to do his job was, I guess, just him.

 

Generally if a company generates large profits it attracts competition, but obviously it is hard to compete with a company that is distorting the market.

[A4e Client 10]

But the entire capitalist market system is based on distortion - getting one up on your competitors through legal means or foul. The vast majority of the rumours flying around about company profits/losses/takeover bids etc. are fabricated to manipulate share prices. The FSA is aware of this but is powerless to act.

 

The real wealth is generated by transferal of ownership (stocks/shares/property) not by manufacturing a product. Healthy, profitable companies die every day due to stock manipulation by global economic vampires.

[jfish1936 10]

12th century interview:

"Mr. Hood, why do you rob the rich?"

"Well, they're the ones worth robbing"

"And why do you give to the poor?"

"Stops them dobbing me in!"

 

But seriously:

If you set a reasonable rate of tax, it will be paid. If you set a "strip the rich" level, then it becomes worth the rich man's while to minimise his tax (legal, avoiding is illegal).

Say I'm going to pay $10,000 in tax --- how much is it worth to hire a lawyer/accountant who can halve that? Say $4,000? That leaves me with an extra $1,000. May not be worth the risk of the fix failing.

Now if I'm due for $1,000,000, paying $400,000 to halve it gets me really good advice, and I now have $100,000. That sounds woth while!

Plat with the figures, they're only an illustration.

So I can't evade the British or Australian tax collector? Why not go and live in the Isle of Man or some other tax haven? or anyway, a country where I'll pay less.

After all, I could always holiday in Sheffield, if I don't stay too long.

[Digsy 10]

So if your skill is pushing a mop, you are competing in a market with lots of supply (most people can push a mop) - so the price paid for your skill (wages) is low.

 

But if pushing that mop, means more people will eat in your clean cafe (for example) rather than the one across the street who has better chefs but a crap cleaner.

Then that cleaner should be paid a wage to suit their value and not have to clean the chefs spit off the floor for a pittance.

 

Whilst the owner plays golf, and buys ferraris from the proceeds of his McCafe chain.

And his kids do 2 hours with a home tutor named Helga 34dd.

Edited February 22, 2009 by Digsy

[Titanic99 10]

Is it time we took from the rich and gave to the poor.

 

Taxation is unfair.

 

There are people with ridiculous amounts of wealth and those with none at all.

 

 

What do you think?

 

To a small extent this is happening now (too late in my view), the current level of interest rates should be helping those working people who are srtuggling to pay their mortgaes, whilst at the same time hitting those with most invested hardest.

 

I do find your argument and the thread interesting, to put a bit of context to it, if we divided the total wealth of the nation by the number of every man, woman and child we'd all be worth around £105,000 per person (2006 figures), now if someone was to offer me the opportunity to trade in my current worth against this figure then I'd snatch their hand off.

 

There is still plenty of money out there, it just seems that only a few people have got access to it.

[walkers 10]

Why should anyone have to work for a living, when someone else can do it for them?

 

My ex has 3 kids, get house and around £200 aweek, i cant think of a job she can do that pays for child minder, rent, rates and still have £200 left a week in pocket

[Wildcat 10]

At the risk of repeating myself, isn't that exactly what the taxation system does?

 

That's what it is supposed to do, but with successive Govt.s encouraging tax avoidance the reality is that it is the poor that subsidise the rich, both in this country and internationally.

 

More info here:

 

http://www.taxjustice.net/cms/front_content.php?idcat=2

[barpen 10]

12th century interview:

"Mr. Hood, why do you rob the rich?"

"Well, they're the ones worth robbing"

"And why do you give to the poor?"

"Stops them dobbing me in!"

 

But seriously:

If you set a reasonable rate of tax, it will be paid. If you set a "strip the rich" level, then it becomes worth the rich man's while to minimise his tax (legal, avoiding is illegal).

Say I'm going to pay $10,000 in tax --- how much is it worth to hire a lawyer/accountant who can halve that? Say $4,000? That leaves me with an extra $1,000. May not be worth the risk of the fix failing.

Now if I'm due for $1,000,000, paying $400,000 to halve it gets me really good advice, and I now have $100,000. That sounds woth while!

Plat with the figures, they're only an illustration.

So I can't evade the British or Australian tax collector? Why not go and live in the Isle of Man or some other tax haven? or anyway, a country where I'll pay less.

After all, I could always holiday in Sheffield, if I don't stay too long.

 

 

I think you are likely to be preaching to the deaf here.

 

I fully agree. Tony Blair earned £12 million last year. The good socialist that he is made sure his earnings were paid constructively, and as a result claimed more from the tax payers for his UK offices than he handed back.

 

Lewis Hamilton, rock stars, etc etc, simply pay a fraction of the tax by having their earnings paid overseas. As a result some foreign government take a very small percentage of their £10 million plus earnings, which is a great deal more than the 40% of sod all that the UK government takes off them.

 

Last year I shifted my manufacturing overseas. I pay enough for my imports to ensure the UK tax bill is minimal. The more they try to take the more inclined I am to look for ways of reducing my tax bill.

 

Consider this statistic. The UK apparently had 440 people who earned more than £10 million last year. Only 62 of them actually paid income tax to the UK government. Why is that. It is because they didn't have to.

Edited February 22, 2009 by barpen