Unwanted / Wanted Pregnancy

[Chopsie 10]

Hang on - something has just occurred to me. If parents are unmarried, then the father must accompany the mother to register the birth in order to be named on the birth certificate, or complete a form allowing her to put his name on. So it's impossible for a guy to be named on a birth certificate and not know until the CSA comes knocking, as he would have to have given his consent to be named as the father.

 

Surely they could just refuse to do this, then therefore have no parental responsibility?

[Cyclone 10]

Not being named on the birth certificate does not stop them being pursued for maintenance if the mother identifies them as the father to the CSA.

[Bago 10]

Hi, in away the lad will be banged to rights, its the females choice weather to keep the baby or not, the male will have no say in it unless they love each other and they dont wont a child different story.. i know this from exprience due to a very drunken night but we both sat down and spoke about it.. it would all go down to the way the lad speaks to the women about it. you would both be in shock so you would realy need to stay carm about it. when it happened to me i panict realy bad when i noticed the condom had split. so unless you have had any realy experience with it you may never know the other persons feelings towards it....

The thing is, does the guy really care to begin with? As if knowing the feeling of the woman makes any differences. As it does not take a rocket scientist to know how this will affect the woman biologically, and if she is not ready emotionally for something this big, then it is like having the rug pulled under you.

 

Judging from some of the more supposedly mature male posters, I do not think that they would give two hoots to be honest!

[Bago 10]

I don't know that anyone said the girl wanted to have a child. I think your OP suggested it was a shock to both people involved. There are many factors that would influence a womans decision. The usual one influencing a man would be " what's my cheapest exit strategy".

Termination will not be a pleasant experience. People die in the process, others are permanenty damaged and can no longer have children. Some people have religious objections to termination.

Abortion might seem like the easy way out. I am not sure either way. I just think that if after weighing up the options a girl decides to have a baby and struggle as a single mother, then the father has some responsibility to help.

 

I think that this sums it up well!

[foxy lady 10]

Not being named on the birth certificate does not stop them being pursued for maintenance if the mother identifies them as the father to the CSA.

 

It is nice to see that we can actually agree on something.

 

But... Aren't you simply quoting the law here? Isn't this supposed to be a hypothetical situation disregarding legal niceties?

[Bago 10]

That IS NOT a choice. She can just say no, it's still HER choice.

It isn't a choice if her choice is either to go through some kind of operation, or to have it naturally. What if she doesn't wish it is happening to her? She cannot either get out of the situation unscarred emotionally or physically !

Have you ever tried pushing a 6lb-8lb bowling ball through your plumbings?

 

Either way, it is going to affect her body. So why do you see this as a choice as if it is going to be a great liberating thing?

 

If that is how you argue it, then I can say that the man also have a choice. His choice is to negotiate the payment, and to come to some form of private arrangement with the mother, so that it does not have to go through the CSA's standard. I think that it is fair. He makes it sound like as if he has absolutely no choice. Life is what you make of it.

 

He can still end up paying nothing, but maybe doing his duty and help her out in other ways. i.e. babysit, and so forth. Then again, I do not see these fathers wanting to do that. If he doesn't want to do that, then he should've thought of the consequences beforehand, end of.

 

A choice is not something where you ask someone else and hope they agree. It's where you make a decision. He cannot make a decision, your best effort is that he can ASK the mother and hope.

A choice that do not have all the advantages weighed up against the disadvantages, is NOT a choice! If the choice is to abort, but then aborting means potential harm to yourself, is this a choice? I don't think so. Either way, the woman is trapped into making this kind of moral judgement for herself, the least the man can provide some form of helpful suggestions, or to stop being so antagonistic in giving her more grief over potential payment, or paint her as a moneygrabber.

 

If you cannot help, and do not want to help. Then shut up.

 

Are you even reading what is written. FAILURE of contraception, UNEXPECTED pregnancy.

 

I think you are the one that is not reading. I already quoted this once before!

 

now of course some form of contraception should have been used but wasn’t. or more interestingly...it was used but wasen't effective.

 

Even though he gave the scenario as "unexpected pregnancy", the original poster then came up with this classic gem!

 

Just told a work mate about this (a woman) and she told me of a friend of hers who is now in her early 30's and is apparantly 'trying' to get pregnant with any man she can find.

 

a slight side issue to the original post...but i'm sure the 'lucky guy' won't feel that lucky at being trapped by a woman who only wanted a child...not a relationship.

 

Sorry, what was that about moving goal posts, or do you not read the thread at all ?

 

The only one blaming is you.

No smoke without fire.

 

 

Quote:

Grahame: If she wants an abortion that is what she has. If she wants a baby that is what she has, plus a load of money. She can't loose, but the man can and very heavily.

 

leviathan13: What about the woman who uses pregnancy to try and trap a man?

 

For example:

 

The man uses a condom, the woman tells him she's on the pill/some sort of contraception etc. so, as far as the man is concerned, they are doing everything they can to prevent pregnancy.

 

During the encounter, the woman somehow manages to pierce the end of the condom very slightly, and has lied to the man about being on the pill etc.

 

If the man doesn't want the child, but the woman does, should he still be expected to provide for it?

 

I'm sorry if this has been asked previously, but it's quite a lengthy thread.

 

Grahame: It happens regularly leviathan. Young girls sometimes make it a career choice and a sure-fire way to a council flat.

 

Grahame: It's women using their feminine wiles. They have always done it in order to get their own way. I call it entrapment.

(What BS!)

 

Grahame: Not doing that. It is a fact of life. It is a planned pregnancy for the woman and an unwanted and unexpected pregnancy for the man.

 

Sorry, remind me why it does not come across as "blame" ?

 

Listening does not mean that he has to abide by her decision, which is the current legal position.

 

Listening means that you take her words into the overall decision as well, so that it is NOT a biased decision. I think equality and fairness is about having BOTH sides air their views, and then make a decision based on that. If her views are such that, it is not in compliant with HIS views, then he should not then emotionally blackmail and say that he is out of it altogether, when originally he did have a stake in the whole affair.

 

Even if NHS provides a free abortion, HE should still provide some kind of action to proof that he is doing his responsibile part! Avoiding this is kind of selfish.

 

I think your radar is broken, but this isn't about the morality of sex.

Yes, the first scenario is reckless, reckless from both man and woman involved.

I do not know what you are arguing about, but I can see that I am not the only person who see this as a moral issue.

 

Please read:

However it was posed as a moral question, so that is how I answered. If it were asking for advice and help the last paragraph wouldn't be there or it wuld be worded as 'asking for a friend' or may through the Dear Forum facility.

 

 

That's what you say because you're apparently unable to understand that women still have a choice for upto 24 weeks and men have none. Or you understand that but can't see how that is inequitable.

If you put it so literally, then yes, it is a "choice" as you put it. I do not see it as a choice based on Free Will.

 

However, I know that a lot of women do not wish to have such moral "choices" upon them. It does affect them to begin with, and that is why it is such a big deal if someone went through this, and I do not wish that on any women out there.

 

However, you guys make it seem like that there are women out there to grab all that they can and is a money grabber, and deliberately painting the picture that women do this on purpose. Well! You have absolutely no sympathy from me what so ever. Whether this is a real life scenario, or a fake one. Those who wrote heartless words like that, can only think of one thing, and one thing only. I do not sense any "equality" and "fairness" in their mannerism and tone. As I said from the offset, this kind of discussion is moot.

 

If you do not think that it is fair. Then that is your opinion, because I think it is absolutely fair under the circumstances.

[Bago 10]

It is nice to see that we can actually agree on something.

 

But... Aren't you simply quoting the law here? Isn't this supposed to be a hypothetical situation disregarding legal niceties?

 

I almost fell off my office chair!

Don't quote the bloomin law, cos it is IRRELEVANT !

 

Oh, maybe now is also not a good time to say that, Fathers are allowed DNA testing to see if they are the real fathers or not. I read the CSA website yesterday. Gosh.. it did not take me long to find out information like this. I wonder what the heck the others are on about?

[Darbees 10]

I almost fell off my office chair!

Don't quote the bloomin law, cos it is IRRELEVANT !

 

Oh, maybe now is also not a good time to say that, Fathers are allowed DNA testing to see if they are the real fathers or not. I read the CSA website yesterday. Gosh.. it did not take me long to find out information like this. I wonder what the heck the others are on about?

If you were the expert on all things that you purport to be, you would have already known all that.

[Cyclone 10]

It is nice to see that we can actually agree on something.

 

But... Aren't you simply quoting the law here? Isn't this supposed to be a hypothetical situation disregarding legal niceties?

 

Just enlightening Bago as she continues to argue from a position of ignorance.

[foxy lady 10]

Just enlightening Bago as she continues to argue from a position of ignorance.

 

How can anything be a position of ignorance if you are discussing a hypothetical situation and disregarding of the law.

 

Surely everyone is in an equally ignorant position in such circumstances.

[Bago 10]

Just enlightening Bago as she continues to argue from a position of ignorance.

 

You mean, my ignorance comes from the fact that I am ignoring the point made about women will entraping men into having a pregnancy?

 

I think you have not answered a lot of my questions.

What would you do, if knowing that the original situation posed, then have complications like the mother will endanger her health? What if, she was already into her pregnancy like 8 weeks plus, or 14 weeks onwards whereby popping a pill does not kill the foetus any more? Exactly what will the man do then? Are you saying that at the point of him knowing, and he still do not want it, then he would not do anything more than that in any way at all?

 

All I hear is:

- Father do not want baby. No matter what the outcome or want is from the woman, he would not want the rights to the child, or the responsibilities to the child.

[Cyclone 10]

How can anything be a position of ignorance if you are discussing a hypothetical situation and disregarding of the law.

 

Surely everyone is in an equally ignorant position in such circumstances.

Bago keeps referring to the current situation (she's not completely up to speed with hypothetical), but she keeps getting it wrong.