Replacing the sats test with guess what? Tests!

[tzijlstra 11]

Salesmen and teachers are entirely different, one sells things and their performance can be measure by how much they sell, and one teachers and their performance can be measured by how much their pupils learn.

 

What's bizarre is that you are finding this difficult to understand.

 

No, what is bizarre is that you haven't got a clue what you are defending, but are quite happy to do so. Tell me Sutty, what is your background with education?

[sutty27 10]

No, what is bizarre is that you haven't got a clue what you are defending, but are quite happy to do so. Tell me Sutty, what is your background with education?

 

I'm defending common sense, how good or how bad a salesmen is is based on how much they sell, and how good or bad a teacher is based how much their pupils learn.

[tzijlstra 11]

I'm defending common sense, how good or how bad a salesmen is is based on how much they sell, and how good or bad a teacher is based how much their pupils learn.

 

No, you are propelling horse manure into thin air on the basis of nothing. I've worked in schools, I studied professionalism and I have three family members here in the UK that are/were teachers. You are dismissing my views and the views of Anna B, who was a teacher, because... I really don't know why. Just quietly leave this thread be, it is yet another topic you clearly know nothing about but have an opinion on none-the-less. Better yet, go read some literature on the topic, I recommend Ivan Illich' Deschooling society and Freidson's the Third Logic as starting points. Develop some critical thinking, do some further reading on the topic and then explain what a rigid assessment system actually is and why it is good for education.

[Davey1981 10]

It's amusing how ministers that put these tests in place & say its a good thing so our children can be educated correctly can't even answer correctly some of the answers on them.

 

I have spelling, grammar issue's. But I'm a fully qualified Mechanical Engineer. Semi qualified demi chef & self taught web & graphics design. Currently learning software engineering as we speak. So it just shows that you don't have to be good at everything to progress in life. You just have to be good at the right things for the things you want to do in live!

 

Or, you can be an idiot & manage to become an MP. To succeed, all you need is to have support staff smarter than you!

[couture 10]

Does anyone really care....go to school, leave.....get a job.....it worked for me, I left school with nothing BUT I worked my way up to become a Manager. Kids today are lazy and think the world owes them a living!!!!!!!!!

[sutty27 10]

I've worked in schools, I studied professionalism and I have three family members here in the UK that are/were teachers. You are dismissing my views and the views of Anna B, who was a teacher, because... I really don't know why. Just quietly leave this thread be,

 

I won't leave it be because the tax I pay helps to fund teachers wages.

 

And I will dismiss the opinion of any worker that doesn't want their performance measured.

 

And the best way to measure the performance of teachers is by measuring the amount a child as learned.

[tzijlstra 11]

I won't leave it be because the tax I pay helps to fund teachers wages.

 

And I will dismiss the opinion of any worker that doesn't want their performance measured.

 

And the best way to measure the performance of teachers is by measuring the amount a child as learned.

 

It isn't the best way to measure the performance of teachers, it is part of the way to measure performance. It's the incompetence demonstrated by people like you that mean we get the daft system that exists now.

 

Making measurement the goal is tantamount to ignoring why you are measuring in the first place. Anyway, no point in arguing with you, you know better due to thin air.

[sutty27 10]

It isn't the best way to measure the performance of teachers, it is part of the way to measure performance. It's the incompetence demonstrated by people like you that mean we get the daft system that exists now.

 

Making measurement the goal is tantamount to ignoring why you are measuring in the first place. Anyway, no point in arguing with you, you know better due to thin air.

 

A teacher is paid to teach, the pupil is there to learn, we know how much the pupil as learned by testing them, if the pupils learn nothing then is it because all the pupils are stupid, probably not, or is it because the teacher wasn't up to the task of teaching.

 

Sorry that you don't like the idea but getting all emotional about it isn't going to change the facts.

 

How would you assess a teachers ability to teach?

[truman 10]

Not foolproof however. I've known a teacher be watched by 2 examiners at the same time, against the same criteria, and come up with entirely different interpretations of what they'd seen, and totally different grades. which is what makes it so scarey, especially when your job depends on it.

 

Isn't this where a test of the kids would be useful? Genuine question...

[alchresearch 215]

A teacher is paid to teach, the pupil is there to learn, we know how much the pupil as learned by testing them, if the pupils learn nothing then is it because all the pupils are stupid, probably not, or is it because the teacher wasn't up to the task of teaching.

 

Its not as black and white as that. Student ability in different subjects is a massive factor, as is classroom environment.

 

Little Billy does well in Maths, but poor in English. Is that because the English teacher isn't very good? Or that there are other factors hindering his English progress?

[truman 10]

Maybe what should be tested/measured is a pupil's progress/improvement....

[sutty27 10]

Its not as black and white as that. Student ability in different subjects is a massive factor, as is classroom environment.

 

Little Billy does well in Maths, but poor in English. Is that because the English teacher isn't very good? Or that there are other factors hindering his English progress?

 

It could be or it could be that little Billy just isn't good at English.

 

That's why we don't measure a teachers ability to teach based on the test results of just one pupil.

 

 

Now if most of the kids in little Billies class appear to be poor at English, and most of the kids in other classes taught by the same teacher are poor at English then its very likely down to poor teaching.

 

---------- Post added 04-05-2016 at 09:45 ----------

 

Maybe what should be tested/measured is a pupil's progress/improvement....

 

Isn't that the point of SATS?