Are the English a dying breed?

[pk014b7161 11]

this country is going tits up fast , down to gang culture etc etc

[Bago 10]

I think it's different people's perception and worldview of how society is to them.

 

There will always be people with a different association to who they class as "English". So if others associate it as a different meaning, it isn't because they are doing this to be deliberately obtuse.

 

If you asked, "Are the (Celtic) English a dying breed?", then my answer will be a "no, because they will find commonalities with some other Europeans who also has such tradition and backgrounds".

[Smunchkin 10]

I can read just fine i assure you. You didn't actually answer the question though, infact you didn't even treat as a question, you even reffered to it as a comment not a question.

 

In any case if that was an answer i'm not satisfied with it, why would me having security lights, deadlocks cctv and alarms (incidently i don't have these things) mean that Tab1 doesn't deserve to be safe in his own home?

 

I see you continually picking on comments that were not said in the way you perceive them. I ask myself is it because you don't understand that things in this Country are not like they used to be as in home security or security out on the street or the fact that you don't understand that things never used to be like this in Briton, or are you just being a very silly argumentative person for the sake of it?

 

If I can see what you are doing by repeating yourself when you have been given the answer a few times, then so must others and you are doing yourself no favours whatsoever. No one said tab was not due security, only that its not guaranteed today as much as it was in the past. Do you get it now?

[Bondy 007 10]

this country is going tits up fast , down to gang culture etc etc

Which wouldn't be a problem if the government empowered the Police to sort real crime instaead of making them chase after silly targets and harrass motorists all the time.

[DragonofAna 10]

The Celts did not arrive until earliest 5th century bc, and some have it as late as the first century bc - so they cannot even decide that much. However - by the time the celtic ways supposedly started the kingdoms of Britain (and I do not refer to England, Scotland, wales) had long since been formed. We already had many of the things historians seem to want to thank others for giving us - like religion; agriculture; pottery (after a fashion) and so on and so on.

 

One of the greatest difficulties with discovering our distant past is the fact that most of what we had simply rotted away. What remained was improved upon and then came the Romans - who were not fighting people with wooden spears.

 

Almost all historians find that the europeans considered Britain a place of giants who had language but rarely wrote anything down - preferring to pass things on by word of mouth.

 

There is no proof that the settlements associated with the Celts actually had anything to do with the Celts other than the similarities in construction and content. This may sound mad until you realise that what we are famous for is absorbing other cultures and at least until recently, converting them to our own. The church, for instance, is not called the Church of England for nothing. The original priests of these holy places were Druid who became monks to keep a grip on religion and thus the bible has been altered to suit - which is why many christian festivals coincide with pagan ones.

 

We have our own 'celtic' settlement at Mam Tor. It is clearly labelled as such. Yet at least one historian agrees that the Celts never made an impression in yorkshire. That there are similarities is hardly surprising considering the fact that development must have been pretty closely linked between the British tribes and the Celtic methods. It is also possible that the supposed Celtic settlements are mostly based upon ancient British design and beliefs, especially as the weight of belief in the Celtic 'invasion' is based on similarities between British and European discoveries. Yet the Druid had already been spreading out into Europe - teaching the Gauls and the rest about the way of the Druid, and thus it is likely they passed on more than just religious teachings.

 

And all that without even touching upon Geoffrey of Monmouth.

 

Dragon

[DragonofAna 10]

It's true people have been saying 'it was better in my day' for literally hundreds of years

 

Maybe ... and I want you to spend more than 2 seconds thinking about this ... maybe people keep saying that because it is true.

 

No drugs. Few stabbings. Safety without security lights and multiple thickness doors with padlocks and bolts and metal bars on the windows. A community spirit (very rare these days). People taking responsibility and sharing. And though it may cause an uproar - less crime, unless you class kick the can as a crime. More respect for everyone and everything.

 

Just maybe it was better in those days.

 

Dragon

[Wildcat 10]

The Celts did not arrive until earliest 5th century bc, and some have it as late as the first century bc - so they cannot even decide that much. However - by the time the celtic ways supposedly started the kingdoms of Britain (and I do not refer to England, Scotland, wales) had long since been formed. We already had many of the things historians seem to want to thank others for giving us - like religion; agriculture; pottery (after a fashion) and so on and so on.

 

 

And all that without even touching upon Geoffrey of Monmouth.

 

Dragon

 

My Michael Parker Pearson book from English heritage conjectures Rathgall fort may have been early celtic and it is dated 800BC

http://www.rathwood.com/rathgall.htm

 

I am interested is there any evidence of a Celtic invasion? or is it more likely what archaelogists define as Celtic is more a style or fashion and technology rather than a people?

[Electrician 10]

Close this "Its Depressing"................I used to be ENGLISH.

 

(there now follows a minute silence)

[DragonofAna 10]

My Michael Parker Pearson book from English heritage conjectures Rathgall fort may have been early celtic and it is dated 800BC

http://www.rathwood.com/rathgall.htm

 

Wonderful how his date precedes just about everyone elses. The historians and archeologists just cannot get it right - too much guesswork.

 

I am interested is there any evidence of a Celtic invasion? or is it more likely what archaelogists define as Celtic is more a style or fashion and technology rather than a people?

 

The evidence is that the celtic style began in europe and the only way it could have come to Britain was through invasion. Never understood the logic but hey ho.

 

We have lost so much over the decades, and had so much taken from us. Finding anything about pre-historic Britain is damned hard work. It's as if we hardly existed before the coming of the Romans, even though we actually get quite a bit of praise from them for our achievements. It's as if someone blinked and we suddenly existed.

 

And now in the modern era we are having even more taken from us - our patriotism; our pride as a nation; our roots; and what it is to be British. Instead we must hang our heads in shame at the mention of anything to do with Britain as a nation, because everyone knows we never achieved anything, and the things we did in the past were all bad things.

 

Dragon

English and damned proud of it

[Wildcat 10]

And now in the modern era we are having even more taken from us - our patriotism; our pride as a nation; our roots; and what it is to be British. Instead we must hang our heads in shame at the mention of anything to do with Britain as a nation, because everyone knows we never achieved anything, and the things we did in the past were all bad things.

 

Dragon

English and damned proud of it

 

I don't agree that anyone hangs there head in shame at the great things Britain has achieved. Nor that there was any evidence of lack of patriotism around the olympics.

 

There is however a disagreement over what it is in our history that we should be proud of. The thing that upset me most about so called patriots is their willing association with the ideology that we should be proud we fought in the last world war. It is them and the apologists for the excesses of colonialism that makes it difficult to unreservedly talk about patriotism.

[Ms Macbeth 76]

And now in the modern era we are having even more taken from us - our patriotism; our pride as a nation; our roots; and what it is to be British. Instead we must hang our heads in shame at the mention of anything to do with Britain as a nation, because everyone knows we never achieved anything, and the things we did in the past were all bad things.

 

Dragon

English and damned proud of it

 

Quite a lot of British patriotism shown during the Olympic games surely? I think there was a feeling of national pride in those who were successful, they got a great reception on their return. I don't see that as hanging anyone's heads in shame. The fact that some of our past may not be glorious, doesn't mean that we need be ashamed of most of it - perhaps we just need be aware that our ancestors weren't perfect? That could apply to any country in the world.

 

My parents used to say things were going down hill during the 50s, then the 60s, and they'd lived through two world wars! Each generation has fond memories of their young days, rose coloured, backward looking glasses!

 

Recent history: after WWII most of us (like me) in the UK lived in rented homes, without central heating, no television, nor fridges or freezers or washing machines, and hardly anyone I knew had a phone and even fewer a car. No supermarkets, and limited ranges of food. Most extended families lived near each other, and unless they were 'professional' like doctors or solicitors, most had homes that were quite basic, with furnishings that lasted a lifetime. Children lived in genuine poverty if their parents weren't inclined to work hard - and even if they did work hard in some cases!

 

We got commercial TV in the 60s, and people started to become aware of different life styles - usually American. Advertising brought awareness into the lives of ordinary people, and what had previously been considered luxuries, started to become 'must haves'. As consumerism has grown, so our British society (just like others) has altered. Some of it for the better, some for the worse. For most individuals, materially things have improved hugely.

 

I'm glad I was born in the UK, its meant that I've had advantages in terms of free health care and education, but it doesn't mean that I want my life to be the way it was 50+ years ago. I appreciate having a computer, dishwasher, car, having a comfortable, centrally heated home, mobile phone etc. The decent people in our society still greatly outweigh the others, and I've been fortunate to meet, work with, and live beside many decent people - lots of them English. I even married one!

 

Surely the real issue in the UK isn't about where people were born, or their ethnicity, its about their behaviour - just as it always was. Many in our society are anti social, criminal, inconsiderate people, and that includes plenty born here, who have English (and other UK) ancestry going back for generations, yet some people seem to be less concerned about those problems than where someone's family comes from. I just don't get it.

[catzeyesF 10]

Good post ms Macbeth