Tombo46

Aye I am. Like I said I have never been to the shop as I've not had time. Whenever we talk she says business is good though. She does do a lot more than just sell out of the shop I think. Not all florists can put flowers outside (I'm lucky that I can) but if you have to put them inside people NEED to be able to see them. On the odd day I've had to bring them in I've noticed a big drop in sales so not having a good flash certainly puts you at a disadvantage. I'm going to pop down when I have some time this winter and see for myself.

Right you are. although not everyone thinks I'm wrong which is nice! Thank you kindly ; ) As you said. If bulk is needed and taken "as is" then I would only put a small mark up on it, and I mean small! I've always worked in a way that people pay for time more than the product when it comes for flowers. If someone wants a complicated hand-tie that is tailored to their requirements then it's going to take more time and inevitably cost more money. Someone wanting to pick some flowers up from the market takes up very little of my time so there's no need for me to be greedy. Unfortunately not everyone thinks that way. It's the same with some of the catering orders I have for fresh produce. I deal with very little people as the money I make on it isn't worth the hassle. The customers I do have pay on time, don't cause me any grief unless its a genuine problem etc. I'm more than happy to look after them and take a small cut. I have the same feelings about places mentioned above. My beliefs aren't restricted to others either. I only buy things wholesale for my business or for resale. Everything else for personal use I buy retail. Makro, Costco and Bookers are a whoooole new thread though haha. Basically, if its trade only, don't shop there, simples. I do actually know a florist in Fulwood. She is a customer of mine and is a relatively new starter to business. She's been in the florist game for a long time though. I can't vouch for her skills or even her business as I've not managed to find time to go and see her yet but when she came to see me to talk about starting up etc she surprised me with how business "savvy" she was. Without trying to sound mean, A lot of women start up florists because they like flowers and most have no clue how to run a business. VAT is added to everyone's invoice and paid at the office regardless of trade/public. It always surprises me when people (usually Police) argue at the office saying "BUT HE TOLD ME THEY WERE £10!, WHY ARE YOU CHARGING ME £12!?". RuthieR - I'd be happy to serve you or even put you on to a trusted florist if you like. Just let me know if you want to talk and I'll drop you a PM =]

Greys are cracking birds. It's horrible when you lose them. I lost my green wing at age 24 and it was very upsetting. Even more so as it was me that caused his death. Things will pick up. Chin up

I have said this many times in my previous posts (have a read). I don't so much blame the public but I do blame my suppliers. People will always seek out cheaper products even if it is on the sly but it's up to the supplier to regulate who they trade with. It is possible and seems to be very much a "Sheffield" thing. I have spoken to people who frequent other markets and this doesn't happen there. I have discussed this with each and every one of my suppliers and their answers are always the same..."it wasn't me that served them" which is why I'm so keen to find out who served the people on this thread. I can easily take that to my suppliers and show them that they are indeed serving the public despite being a trade only organisation. It needs to, and will eventually stop. Unfortunately some retailers are to blame. A good few years ago you had to buy a card annually for £20 so you could trade in the market. Unfortunately many retailers are just as (if not more) tight than the general public and they refused to pay it.

You're probably (if not definitely) right. I am doing myself no favours. It's simply out of pure frustration that I have continued to try and get my point across. This topic is a very very sore one for me and most of my fellow shopkeepers down the market. It's not very often we can actually have a conversation about this sort of thing with the "public" which is why I'm trying so damn hard to get people to understand. Unfortunately much of it is falling on deaf ears or people just discard the majority of what I say and pick on the more controversial parts of my post. A few do understand where I'm coming from though and I'm glad of that at least. There isn't much more I can really say, I've put my point across and anything further I will just be repeating myself. It's pretty clear to anyone reading this thread that it's probably getting to me more than it should. After all, it's just a forum full of faceless names. I don't usually get wound up about things on forums but as I said before, it's a very very sore topic for me so people will just have to forgive me for my ranting.

I think it's a divide between retailer and customer. I honestly think that some people don't understand why this upsets me and I don't think they would unless you gave them a shop to run. It's not about being grumpy and wanting to earn more money, it's much much deeper than that and more about respect between me and my suppliers. What sort of business do you own? I agree but I doubt many will realise/notice this. I don't blame people for shopping in supermarkets etc, they can shop where they want (unless it's trade only of course). Percentage wise, people would be paying a lot less for produce if the supermarkets didn't exists. They are very very good at making people think they are getting the whole package, cheap products and convenient shopping when in reality they are buying expensive sub-quality product (especially when it comes to fresh produce) at steep prices. I have a very good friend who imports salad for Tesco and he tells me their mark-up is between 300% - 400% before waste. The thing that baffles me is every single one of them could have better produce than me, be cheaper than me and provide a better service than me but they don't. They have the manpower, the buying power and the customer base yet they are so utterly terrible at the job. They have the potential to be brilliant but they continue to under-achieve. The reason our trade is declining is not because of our product/service. It is purely down to the fact that people are getting busier and they need convenience more than they need quality/service. Good on you =] Like I said before Irene. I have no problem with you as you were not aware the market was trade only. The responsibility lies with my suppliers to inform you of this and they have failed, many many times it seems. As a little experiment. Try going to one of your local florists next time you want a bulk order and see what sort of prices they give you. Make sure they know you're keen on prices and that you have in the past been to the wholesale market. Obviously everyone works differently but if it was my shop I would (and have in the past) only put a small amount of profit on top. There is a reason, and it's simply that they want it cheaper. This does not take away from the fact that they should not be shopping at a trade only establishment. It stands to reason that I cannot compete with my suppliers however in some cases my prices may be cheaper depending on who you go to and if they realise you're not trade. People pay different prices which is why you don't often see any prices displayed. A good example of this is the fruit and veg side this morning. Raspberries were 80p per punnet. If you had gone on there and bought a box of 8 punnets, you would have paid 80p, possibly more had they seen you coming. The price I paid was 35p which allowed me to shift some quantity at 2 for £1 thus helping the supplier out and giving my customers a great deal. Everyones a winner baby. That being said if one of my customers went to the market and purchased the raspberries at 80p they would think they had got a deal simply because, they are shopping wholesale! everythings cheap in a wholesale market right? wrong... Even though it can prove to be false economy. Telling someone they aren't getting it cheaper wholesale than they would at their retailer is never going to work, they simply wont believe you. In the same way they won't believe you when you tell them that those strawberries at Tesco were never 4.99 a punnet and those melons really aren't buy one get one free. The fact of a matter is, as a nation we are **** poor at shopping. No one understands the value of anything, they only understand fictitious "deals" and "bargains". A good example of this happened just the other day. When a customer came in asking if our blueberries were on offer. the conversation when like this... Customer: Are your blueberries on offer today? Me: They aren't they are only 99p a punnet which is pretty cheap, it's new season Italian too so they eat fantastic. Customer: oh....so they aren't on offer then? Me: I'm afraid not, but if it makes you feel better I'll do them at 2 for £2 for you Customer: Really!? That's great! Thank you! Me: (awkwardly), I'm sorry but I was only making a joke, 2 for £2 is actually more expensive so I can't charge you that. If you did want 2, I can charge you £1.98 which is the proper price? Customer: That doesn't sound like a deal though... I realised I was just digging myself deeper at this point. This unfortunately shows the stupidity of the average British shopper. They will always believe the "yellow ticket" prices at supermarkets just as they will always believe they are getting things cheaper at "wholesalers" (Just look at Costco/Markro). Unfortunately, Aside from slapping people around the face with a wet fish, I cannot change this way of thinking that people have. All I can do is provide quality produce at the right money and give the best service I can.

Sorry for your loss. I miss read your original post and thought you were picking a parrot up and wanted a box for transport. Hence the "........."

I'm really sorry I can't help you but I share your pain. I am self employed and the amount of **** ups they make is unbelievable. They are the worst organisation (I use the word loosely) I have ever dealt with. Not to mention they are bullies who are "above" the law. Best of luck to you.

It would drive me crackers too. I can't fathom how some people choose it as a way of life!

There's hope for jobless Britain yet! Good on you mate ; )

How do I do that? sell at less than cost? Good business model, I'll take it to my bank...

Did you not see the pictures? What part of TRADE ONLY do you not understand? To shop at a trade only establishment that clearly states it is such is morally wrong regardless of reasoning. If the public know they shouldn't be there it is wrong. Unfortunately a lot of the time the suppliers don't always realise they aren't serving trade customers. Seeing as you're businessman of the year, tell me exactly where I can improve on my business, seeing as you know so much about it. Tell me exactly how I can compete with my SUPPLIERS.

Thanks Gazza, You're helping keep me sane... So you're saying I don't EARN my living? What a joke. As I have said in previous posts, I am polite to my customers and offer great service as well as quality produce. I am on this forum arguing my case outside of work, throwing insults calling me "grumpy" is not right. We would not have been around for 30 years if that was not the case. I am not some new starter who thought it would be a good idea to rent a small property and open a florists shop because "I like flowers". I am a businessman. Unfortunately no amount of business competence is going to take away from the fact that I am in a dying trade. As people get busier they will turn to more convenient ways of shopping such as the supermarkets. This is a fact of life and what will inevitably be our downfall. The funny thing is, All these people shopping with the supermarkets don't realise just how much more they are paying for stuff because of them. Our mark-up has increased massively since the supermarkets as they have allowed us to charge the prices we do in order to stay afloat. Just because it has a pretty yellow ticket that tells you you're getting it half price does not mean you're getting a deal. I don't think about it too much though as it is something I can't possibly compete with. I can offer better service and a better product but I can't offer the convenience that the supermarkets do. Therefore I concentrate on that aspect of my business.

If you were unaware that the market was trade only then I have absolutely no problem with you whatsoever. I do however have a problem with the general public knowingly shopping in trade only establishment. I have more of a problem with the supplier who serves them. People who aren't trade stick out like a sore thumb to me and I'll often ask them myself if they are trade etc and explain that if they aren't then they aren't supposed to be shopping in the wholesale market. I always do this in a polite manner and have in the past even said to one of the wholesalers "these guys didn't know this was trade only, any chance you could serve them so they haven't wasted a trip?". I'm not an unreasonable guy, I just ask that my suppliers, whom I spend hundreds of thousands with, do me the common courtesy of not supplying my customers directly. It's hardly a lot to ask really. I never said you were stupid, it's a common misconception that the public are fine to shop there. Even after being told in this thread that it is not supposed to happen (which is a FACT) people still believe I am in the wrong. This is because the majority are always right. I am a small singular retailer surrounded by a forum full of who despite my honest and factual opinion, believe they are right. As for roses being cheaper etc. You're probably right, but not by much. If you're buying in bulk like at the market a florist would probably only put a small mark up on it as it's a no hassle sale. they know exactly what they are buying and would appreciate the custom. If they don't then quite frankly, they shouldn't be trading. Is it not worth paying that extra few quid to support your local business? Agree'd. I myself am a bit different in that respect. It's more like I have a division of my business that specialises in flowers. We do the usual "mixed bunches" you find in most fruit shops etc but also stock a wider range than even some florists. I also do weddings and funerals and have a full time, fully qualified florist working for me, as well as myself of course. I have a long standing background in the flower industry too as I have worked in the wholesale market as a salesman and Dutch plant buyer. If you have been going down the past 10 years then the chances are I've probably seen you. I'd just like to add though that even though I am a fruit man, I am not asking you to come shopping with me. I'm simply asking that you go to your chosen florist and give them your custom. Again Irene, I understand that on forums it's very easy to read things in a certain light, probably more so with the way I type. I'm really not trying to have a go but simply try to get people to understand where I'm coming from. I'm actually a nice guy believe it or not! This thread has actually sparked a lot of talk in the market. I was talking to another florist who shares your surname (Wilde Flowers of Dronfield) and she has also seen a few of her customers in the market and shares my frustration. Don't worry about it ; ) you came on asking an honest question and to be honest, it's given me a bit of relief. I certainly can't share this sort of talk with my customers. That being said, it is possible that they do use this forum... Unfortunately we do have a right. Anybody knowingly shopping down there who KNOWS it is trade only is morally in the wrong. Maybe not from a legal standpoint but morally they most certainly are. Like I have said many a time before though, The responsibility lies with the suppliers. There will always be selfish people knowingly willing to rob retailers out of a living by wrongly going straight to our suppliers but more CAN be done about it. The message is pretty clear though that South Yorkshire Fresh Produce and Flower Centre is TRADE ONLY and there is absolutely no arguing that fact as these pictures clearly show...

Cheers mate, much appreciated =]

Very good question. I know that most of them do own their property but unsure if they have any sort of restrictions on trading? I would have thought they do. Enforcing it would be tricky though. Funilly enough, the public I see most down there are Police on a night shift! They know they are doing wrong because when I ask them why they are down there they go all shy... I get what you mean Gazza but this business is more to me than just money to me. It's been here 30 years and I'm the 3rd generation running it. Times were good about 8 years ago and the money represented how hard we worked. We are currently in a slump but I hope to pull out of it some day. Right now, this business is one of the most important things in my life. I can't imagine how ashamed I would feel should it go under.

Actually, because fruit and veg is my staple I can work quite keen on flowers. My prices are very low, much more than the supermarkets and other competing florists. I very much doubt that people would find them much cheaper without buying crap from a market stall. As for my attitude. I'm actually very polite to my customers. Even the ones I have seen at the market cutting me out. The fact is, this is not just me, this is happening to EVERY florist in the Sheffield area. It doesn't happen in Leeds which means it can be stopped. What I am finding difficult to comprehend is the fact that you insinuated I was loopy? I have never once argued with a customer in my life. I smile and take their money because this is what I must do in order to make a living. Unfortunately, the fact of the matter is, I need them more than they need me. Please try and understand why I find this so frustrating. I can say without any doubt that I work damn hard. I start at 2am and finish, well, just now when I've finished fixing this fridge...I can also guarantee that I am earning less than any one on here who is employed and in full time work. So forgive me when I feel a little hard done to when I see my suppliers serving my customers. I also believe that anyone who is knowingly going down to the market and buying produce is morally in the wrong. I keep reptiles as a hobby and as a business I deal with a few pet product wholesalers. So where do I buy my reptile equipment from? My local reptile shop. Now these people I see down at the market are driving a much nicer cars than me, live in a much nicer houses than me (I live in the flat above my shop) and have nicer "things" than me. If I can shop at a retail shop while earning much less than them, surely they can do the same?

unfortunately you are right. The frustrating thing is that they do not realise how damaging it is, for both them and the retailers. This is why my anger lies with them and not to the public on this forum. I haven't shopped with one of my suppliers this summer purely because he served one of my customers. Had he apologised and promised to be more keen in the future than I would have continued to shop with him. The amount I usually spend with him over the summer is in the 10's of thousands. Who in their right mind would throw all that away because Mr and Mrs tightarse decided to shaft their local shop out of a living?

And are you aware you are not meant to shop there?

A lot of PYO farms are stopping now because of the increasing "one for you, one for me" attitude that people are adopting. A lot of crops will be nackered this year too due to the rain. Most strawberries/raspberries you find in shops (including mine) will have been grown under cover.

I own a Greengrocers/florist shop and I was working outside on some renovation work on my shop. I decided to put all the plants outside and do some trade while I worked. I took about £600 when some scrap men approached me and said " 'scuse me pal, is that old till goin' for scrap? ". I replied "you can buy it off me but it will cost you £200." They told me where to get off but promptly changed their minds when I told them the contents of it... Funny thing is, had they not been the way they were I would have given them a huge amount of scrap metal I had sitting on my garage roof!

If you don't like attitude then I'm afraid parkway market isn't the place for you. You won't get the service you do in the shops and if they know you aren't trade, you're likely to pay more than you would in a shop (as they see you coming). I am very polite to my customers and give excellent service however my customers would be shocked to hear me talk down there. It's a running joke down there to be told "can you please mind your language. There's florists on this pitch you know". It's a different world, even smoking is allowed indoors. On a more serious note, and purely out of curiosity and in no way a personal attack. Do you know that you're not meant to be shopping down there? I'm curious as it amazes me how many people go down to the market and don't realise what it's purpose is. Also out of interest, which pitch was it that served you? I don't know where you live or if you have a florist local to you but I think you'll find that if you go to them and ask for prices on bulk flowers you may even find you get them cheaper. They will usually only put a small profit on them and will be buying them much cheaper than you would in the first place. A good working relationship go's a long way in the market, especially when it comes to prices. This is the reason they are reluctant to tell you prices, it's because they are robbing your eyes out.

Parkway market is trade only I'm afraid however it isn't enforced nearly as much as I'd like and to be honest, it is of great annoyance to me. Not so much because of people like you as (given by your post) you didn't realise it was trade only. The annoyance comes from the fact that the wholesalers will still serve some people who are not trade. Owning a greengrocers/florist shop, especially during this economic climate you can understand my frustration when I see my own customers who casually say "Hello! Fancy seeing you down here!" at MY supplier essentially "cutting out the middle man". I have had many fall outs over this and considering I spend upwards of £4000 a week in the market I don't think it's a lot to ask that they don't serve my customers. You're wrong I'm afraid. A lot of wholesalers down there will sell odd one's and two's of certain produce if you ask nice enough however they should not be serving the public. As mentioned before it is trade only and the responsibility lies with the wholesalers to make this clear. A simple clear sign on entrance to the market would help clear up any confusion. Unfortunately they probably will serve you yes. Although they shouldn't. Correct. It's bad for everyone. The retailer (like myself) loses custom. We sell less produce which in turn effects our business. We have less disposable profit that can go into things like improving the business which in turn would allow us to sell more produce and effectively buy more from our suppliers. Unfortunately some of my suppliers are short sighted. I have a general rule of thumb. If I see one of my customers getting served on a pitch then I don't go back on for a long time. When questions like "How come you haven't spent anything with us this week" arise, I explain why. Most small businesses are struggling at the moment and it's at times like this we need people to shop local however more and more people are opting for either the convenience of the supermarket, or simply cutting the middle man out altogether by going straight to the supplier. It may seem petty as it's only a small percentage of customers who are doing this however when you consider than 95% of produce sold go's to covering our overheads it doesn't leave much. take away that 5% and we have no business. Like I said, the wholesalers have the power to stop it and the blame lies with them.

They ain't daft. After all, they are in the business of crime ; )

That's a strange one! My names Tom Makinson and I own the Greengrocers/florist at the top of Twentwell Lane. I've seen the speed trap there a few times but never with his camera in the road. Seems a bit daft considering quite a few people come down at speed, It's difficult to stop if someone was going around him. Twentywell Lane is one of those roads where it's easy to go fast. I probably drive too quick up it with the exception of the blind bend (the one just before Twentywell Rise). A customer of mine was knocked over there and was in a bad way for a long time. Where exactly was the bike parked? on the grass? was he closer to Twentywell Road or the corner I mentioned? Most bike coppers have a lot of common sense, especially when it comes to road safety so I'm surprised he had his camera in the road. I can count at least 3 customers who came in the shop today saying they've been "nicked" haha.