Relation between gardening and traffic flow

[Cyclone 10]

"A waste of money for most of us"

 

How is it a waste of money for you?

 

I think you're missing the point. If it disappeared tonight, on Monday how do you think the 3000 that use it from Hillsborough to the centre over a 2 hr period would get to work?

 

I'm going to say that 2000 of them would drive.

 

How do you think that would affect the congestion?

 

Repeat that for those coming from Meadowhall park and ride, from Centretainment park and ride, from Nunnery Sq park and Ride and from the direction of halfway and crystal peaks. That's what, 6000 extra cars from nearly every side of Sheffield that currently aren't on the road.

 

I'm not saying that all car users would or could use the supertram. I'm saying that it runs full at rush hour on all 3 routes, that's 250 every 10 minutes on 3 lines to the city centre.

[mickw 10]

It can constitute a waste of money wether I paid for it or not.

 

No points have been missed, the bus service that already exists would take up the slack if the tram didn't run.

[Cyclone 10]

So is it somehow wasting YOUR money? Do you mean tax money? I don't know the construction costs, but it runs privately at a profit at the moment.

 

The bus service could not possibly take up the slack.

[mickw 10]

So is it somehow wasting YOUR money? Do you mean tax money? I don't know the construction costs, but it runs privately at a profit at the moment.

 

The bus service could not possibly take up the slack.

 

I've already explained the first.

As for the second, yes it could as it did before.

[Cyclone 10]

How did it "before"?

 

Road traffic has continued to increase since the tram was introduced 20 years ago. The levels of traffic now are higher than ever. So people clearly don't choose to use the bus.

Take the tram away (magically overnight) and people would simply drive to work tomorrow.

 

You haven't explained the first point at all btw, if you haven't paid for it, it hasn't wasted your money.

 

You haven't explained who "most" is, or how "most" are wasting money on it.

 

It is a waste of money for most of us

[Penistone999 10]

"A waste of money for most of us"

 

How is it a waste of money for you?

 

I think you're missing the point. If it disappeared tonight, on Monday how do you think the 3000 that use it from Hillsborough to the centre over a 2 hr period would get to work?

 

I'm going to say that 2000 of them would drive.

 

How do you think that would affect the congestion?

 

Repeat that for those coming from Meadowhall park and ride, from Centretainment park and ride, from Nunnery Sq park and Ride and from the direction of halfway and crystal peaks. That's what, 6000 extra cars from nearly every side of Sheffield that currently aren't on the road.

 

I'm not saying that all car users would or could use the supertram. I'm saying that it runs full at rush hour on all 3 routes, that's 250 every 10 minutes on 3 lines to the city centre.

 

Could be worse........ they could cycle

[mickw 10]

Could be worse........ they could cycle

 

 

I didn't pay for it, but I still think it's a waste of money!

Trust me this condition can exist.

 

The "most" account for the vast majority who do not use the tram at all. Because of necessity having to use their vehicles.

Edited October 23, 2016 by mickw

[Cyclone 10]

Could be worse........ they could cycle

 

Are you actually as dim as you seem?

 

2000 people on bikes would disappear. 2000 cars would be in the queues making them longer.

 

---------- Post added 24-10-2016 at 07:26 ----------

 

 

I didn't pay for it, but I still think it's a waste of money!

Trust me this condition can exist.

 

The "most" account for the vast majority who do not use the tram at all. Because of necessity having to use their vehicles.

 

You can certainly THINK that it's a waste of money, but that wasn't what you said before.

Who's money do you think it's a waste of? The people who catch it everyday? Other people who don't in anyway contribute any money to it? Or just the initial construction costs, which are sunk costs and can't be recovered?

You are one of the most if I understand correctly, so how is it a waste of money for you. If it didn't exist, how would it have wasted less money for you? If it hasn't cost you anything, it can't possibly have wasted YOUR money.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Cyclone

[mickw 10]

I never "said" or even wrote it wasted my money!

 

The tram is not the answer to congestion, nor is cycling.

[Bargepole23 337]

I never "said" or even wrote it wasted my money!

 

The tram is not the answer to congestion, nor is cycling.

 

So what is the answer?

 

Maybe there isn't a single solution. Maybe it's a more integrated public transport system. Maybe it's more trams. Maybe it's better cycling infrastructure. Maybe it's a bit of everything.

 

I doubt it has much to do with allowing more cars on the road.

[mickw 10]

So what is the answer

 

Buggered if I know.

Traffic is traffic, I've accepted that and moved on

[Cyclone 10]

I never "said" or even wrote it wasted my money!

 

The tram is not the answer to congestion, nor is cycling.

 

Funny, because imagine if half the drivers who were in a queue in the last 30 minutes (it's 0853 btw) magically transformed their cars into bikes.

The queues would approximately halve in length immediately.

Parking spaces would be much easier to find.

A whole bunch of people might get a little bit healthier.

 

Obviously that doesn't work if they're carrying a toolbox, or they need to drive to client sites later, or perhaps even if they're in a suit (they could change though at work).

 

Cycling won't solve congestion because not enough people will consider the idea. But in theory it would if enough people took it up.

 

The tram won't solve congestion because it already runs at capacity during the rush hour. Nobody claimed it would. If it disappeared though then the congestion would be much much worse, not better.

 

---------- Post added 26-10-2016 at 08:59 ----------

 

I never "said" or even wrote it wasted my money!

 

The tram is not the answer to congestion, nor is cycling.

 

And not to labour the point.

It is a waste of money for most of us

The "most" account for the vast majority who do not use the tram at all.

 

You're in that "most" group. So you did say that it's a waste of money for you.

But you can't explain how.

 

Out of interest, is the heathrow expansion going to be a waste of money for most of us? How about crossrail? How about building a motorway in Scotland or Cornwall?

Infrastructure projects all over the country by definition are not used by MOST of us, because we live nowhere near them... That doesn't make them a waste of money though.