Wheelchair users and prams on public transport, whose priority

[barleycorn]

I haven't explained something that I never said.

 

What a surprise.

 

Actions have consequences. Strange that. If you support the action you support the consequences.

 

jb

[Justin Smith]

IMO the bus company is expecting others to make decisions on its behalf.

 

There's nothing to stop the bus company deciding on a method of meeting its equality obligation, and managing it through contracts when it issues tickets.

 

If it wished, the bus company could allocate a wheelchair space.

 

Then there are 2 options that come to mind.

 

1. Nobody else would be allowed to use it. Anyone with a pram would be required to use the dedicated pram area, or to fold their pram/pushchair and use a normal seat. Or wait for the next bus with a free pram bay.

 

OR,

 

2. If there is space (because no wheelchair users had got on), then anyone else would be free to use it, until such time as a wheelchair user got on. Then they would be required to move to give the space over to the wheelchair user. If there was nowhere else on the bus, then they would be required to get off. This would be part of the conditions of using the bus. If all the pram places were already taken when a pram user got on, they would either use the wheelchair space at the risk of being turned off the bus later, or wait for another bus, with a free pram bay.

 

The problem is lack of space. The space has to be used as efficiently as possible. I don`t catch the bus that often but as far as I can remember I`ve seen loads more prams on busses than wheelchairs, so it really would be inefficient to reserve a space for just wheelchairs (and another for just prams). I`d have thought in 95% of cases the passengers would sort it out between themselves (assuming there`s enough room to do so), because most people are helpful and reasonable in my experience.

Does anyone actually know just how often a wheelchair user has been unable to board a bus ?

Whatever solution the bus companies or anyone else chooses I`m not in favour of one which requires someone with a pram to get off a bus so a wheelchair user (or anyone else) can get on. Plain Talker said that nobody expects that anyway, if that`s what everyone agrees then what are we arguing about ?

 

I do think you`re right that the bus companies are expecting the passengers to make decisions on their behalf, but, as I said above, I don`t really see what would work any better. Possibly the driver getting out of his seat to organise the passengers but I can`t ever remember seeing that happen !

Edited December 16, 2014 by Justin Smith

[Cyclone]

Actions have consequences. Strange that. If you support the action you support the consequences.

 

jb

 

So you've managed to find a very unusual situation where it might be inappropriate to remove a parent and child.

 

Strangely enough though, this wasn't the situation that prompted the court case or this thread.

Instead that was a selfish parent, simply refusing to move, and they should have been thrown off the bus.

[barleycorn]

So you've managed to find a very unusual situation where it might be inappropriate to remove a parent and child.

That is because there are only a limited number of situations where I think the parent and child shouldn't move. Nonetheless, such situations do exist, to pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

 

Strangely enough though, this wasn't the situation that prompted the court case or this thread.

Instead that was a selfish parent, simply refusing to move, and they should have been thrown off the bus.

I have never defended the actions of the parent in the OP, nor would I defend anyone who could move but wouldn't. The fact of the matter is there are situations where it isn't practical, or indeed safe, to move. There will always be losers in such situations, sometimes it will be the wheelchair user and sometimes it will the parent and child.

Personally I am of the belief that public transport should cater for the needs of all sections of the public. This includes providing adequate space for prams (both folded and unfolded) and wheelchairs.

 

jb

[1960]

So you've managed to find a very unusual situation where it might be inappropriate to remove a parent and child.

 

Strangely enough though, this wasn't the situation that prompted the court case or this thread.

Instead that was a selfish parent, simply refusing to move, and they should have been thrown off the bus.

 

I agree that the parent in the OP was selfish, most people are selfish and will rarely if ever commit a selfless act.

 

I couldn't however condone an act of violence against a child or anyone else for that matter just for being selfish, to throw a child off a bus just because the parent is selfish is far worse than the original selfish act.

[Cyclone]

Most people are more than willing to move out of the wheelchair space, or give up a seat to someone who needs it.

 

It's now "violence" to tell someone who won't move to get off the bus. Could you possibly try to use more emotive language.

[1960]

Most people are more than willing to move out of the wheelchair space, or give up a seat to someone who needs it.

 

It's now "violence" to tell someone who won't move to get off the bus. Could you possibly try to use more emotive language.

 

Most people will never be in a situation that gives them a choice of staying put or getting off a bus with their child so that someone else can get on, so we will never know what most people would do.

 

Most people on the buses I have used do not get up to allow someone else to sit.

 

Most people will commit more selfish acts in their lives than selfless acts.

 

Asking someone to move isn't violence but throwing them off when they refuse most definitely is violence.

[Cyclone]

You've changed your claim.

 

most people are selfish and will rarely if ever commit a selfless act.

Is not the same as

Most people will commit more selfish acts in their lives than selfless acts.

 

So if a parent refuses to pay when getting on the bus, what do you imagine should happen? You've ruled out "violence" so they can't be removed from the bus... You can't condone it, so what now. Parent and child are on bus, but refusing to pay.

[1960]

You've changed your claim.

 

 

Is not the same as

 

 

So if a parent refuses to pay when getting on the bus, what do you imagine should happen? You've ruled out "violence" so they can't be removed from the bus... You can't condone it, so what now. Parent and child are on bus, but refusing to pay.

 

The bus driver continues taking the other passengers to their destinations because their needs far out way the needs of the bus company to get a fare from one passenger.

[chem1st]

IT is tiny and has a full time carer with it, who is capable of carrying it.

 

The mother might not be capable of carrying the child, she might be carrying other things, that's probably why she has a pram.

 

A booking system? Meanwhile, back in the real world.

 

Yes a booking system, like they use on the trains, for wheelchairs, in the real world, but only every couple of hours from stations like Dore, through the day.