Late 50s Grammar Schools

[Thorpy 10]

I graduated from Nether Edge in 1947, the uniform at that time was a kind of orangey brown. Weren't there a couple of Intermediate schools as well? Sort of in between Grammar and elementary.

I remember the orangey brown blazer at Nether Edge. We wore that uniform when I started there in 1953(now I really feel ancient)! I think that the brown blazers were phased out maybe the following year and the black blazers, still featuring the two crossed torches became the uniform.This uniform was carried forward after 1958, when the School was moved to become Abbeydale Grammar for boys.

[manaman 10]

Hi Manaman,

 

Thank you for exploding that myth for me. I don't know where I got hold of it but I can now delete it from my memory banks. The only other bit of gen I have on him is my memory of an entry in the births column of The Star " To Jean (?) and Senc. a son, Sensicle". Can you explode that one too? After all, it is 52 years since I left NEGS and 50 since I left Sheffield.

 

I remember when Vince arrived, he wore a blazer with a Loughborough crest on the pocket; I think it was more his demeanour which put me in mind of the sadistic PTI's that I met a few years later when I joined the RAF.

 

Mike

 

Hi Puffin4,

I didn't know any thing about Senc's private life as an adult because my family moved away from Gleadless before I was born. In fact it was while I was at NEGS that he asked me if I was any relation to to an old school mate of his, because I had the same surname. I told him it was my brother.

 

I have done an Ancestry search on the family. Jean is the Christian name of his wife, and they did have a son in the summer of 1956 called Nicholas J. S. presumably the S standing for Sensical.

 

I know what you mean about Vince, we had an ex RAF PTI for physical fitness training when I played in junior football. I think that their similarities extended to more than their demeanour.

[manaman 10]

 

Len Buchan for example, was an excellent teacher of english, both literature and language and was even able to make The Bard (not Beedle the bard) sound interesting... A great achievement in my estimation.

 

It was him what learnt me how to write proper, innit!

 

Hi Pseudonym.

Len Buchan, what a teacher! I agree with everything you've said about him. I can picture him now at the front of the class, acting the part of that old Shakesperian rogue Sir Toby Belch. Not only did he have the right physique for the part, but he had the acting ability and voice as well.

[manaman 10]

I think it 's a measure of the respect / fear that we had of our teachers at NEGS that, even after more than 50 years, I can still remember as a 1st. Year, seeing the door to our classroom open and Len Buchan 's 5 fat, white fingers, curling round the door, signalling his entrance into the classroom.. A shudder of fear went through most of us at the thought of the ordeals, learning and possible punishments to come, during the next40 minutes.However, as somone has said, he was a very effective teacher, and was never physically brutal. Our ' wonderful ' , overpaid, educational bureaucrats have never learned the simple lesson that

if you take away the authority and fear of the teacher, the vacuum will be filled by bullies-------and hence the almost total mess that education is in today. Still.......if the sheep-like British Public don 't mind wasting billions of pounds on what passes for education today, so be it ......! Perhaps you don 't need education to watch Big Brother......etc.... ?

 

Hi Fareast.

I had Len Buchan in the 2nd year. You describe perfectly how we felt as he entered the classroom. Can you remember his enormous briefcase that was always full to bursting point with pupils' homework. Can you remember that if you got a question wrong you had to stand at the front of the class; and within 10mins of the class starting, everyone apart from the odd one or two would be stood at the front of the class.

 

When I was in the 5th year I had Len again. He was completely different in his attitude from the earlier year. The lessons appeared to be given with a more relaxed attitude and we looked forward to the lessons. This did not mean we didn't work as hard, far from it, with "O" Levels at the end of the year.

 

Years later I often wondered why he had such a difference in attitude to the respective years; was it because he preferred to teach older boys, or was it to instill discipline in the earlier years, i.e. NEGS equivalent to "square bashing", so that by the 5th year we were fully immersed in the ethos of the school and also more mature. I suspect it was the latter case, which would reinforce your above argument about authority being essential in schools.

The essential skill for the teacher is then to turn that fear/authority into respect, which Len could certainly do.

[Pseudonym 10]

manaman... Glad to see that we're in agreement about Len Buchan, I owe him a great deal. Before reading the many links posted on here (for which, my thanks to the contributors of these, they were fascinating), I hadn't realised that he'd actually passed away at the school. I remember attending his funeral, it was a sad day for me. He never struck me as a strict disciplinarian, although he had no difficulty in controlling a class. Not only could he portray shakesperian characters (I was told that he was a keen amateur dramatics player), he could also interpret the hidden meaning behind their utterances, it was a real eye-opener to find that Shakespeare was a writer of satire, Len made his works come alive!

 

George Wilkinson, whose nickname to us was never anything but 'The Boss', gives an indication of the respect in which he was held! I remember that on the rare occasion that he took a class, he'd select the tough-guy, bad-boy pupil and stand at the front with him, his arm around him, apparently being quite affectionate... an action that would probably give rise to the possibility of prosecution nowadays! He was very skilfull though, whilst the poor lad was squirming under his grip and the undivided attention of the class, The Boss would cleverly 'frisk' him, removing illicit items from his pocket and confiscating them... Lock-knife (all the rage at that time, we used to play 'splits' with them, remember that game?), chewing-gum, etc. All this whilst asking questions of him and the class concerning the lesson. Never a word was said by either the frisked or the frisker about the various items removed, examined and either replaced or confiscated.

 

'Gem' Belcher... Metalwork teacher... New to ABGS... A mutual hatred developed between us, I'd invariably be told to get out of the class each week which suited me fine, it was the last 'double-period' each wednesday, so I'd bunk off early each week.

 

'Charlie' Simpson... Struck fear and terror into us, always wielded a thundering great slipper and the signal for his arrival in the classroom was this thing flying through the door and landing on the desk, he rarely had to call for quiet!

 

I can't cease this rambling before I mention 'Vince', his favourite 'exercise' seemed to be what came to be known as 'The Slipper Game', the idea being that at a given signal, you scrambled for a purchase on designated pieces of equipment, falling off or failing to secure a place clear of the floor meant that you soon understood how the game got its name!

 

How I remember working-up a sweat in winter-time in the 'gym'(the dual-purpose dining-hall at NEGS) and then having to dash across the road to the main building to get a shower! BRRR!

 

Yes, discipline was certainly essential and those that successfully applied it gained our respect, albeit often grudgingly. Those that failed in this regard, looking back, must have had a heck of a time of it!

[CHAIRBOY 11]

WOODHOUSE GS - There was a photograph of the First Class at WGS, taken in May 1953, in the Weekender Past Times page of Saturday 6th Dec's Star. I'm not involved with the school but the master in charge of this class is none other than Peter Horton who became Chairman of Sheffield Education Committee and Lord Mayor of Sheffield in 1987. Peter died in 2005.

See school site link below.

 

http://www.j31.co.uk/woodhousegrammar.htm

[Fareast 10]

Yes, Manaman----very interesting comments about old Len ! I hope I didn 't give the wrong impression in my previous comment about Len [ ' the fear ', ' the five fat fingers....etc.....] because, although we only had him in our 1st. year, I 'm sure almost all the class, including me, enjoyed his lessons. [ Nothing wrong with a frisson of fear to make a lesson interesting ! ].

 

I can well understand him relaxing the regime for the 5 th. Years. Against all expectations, I 've been a teacher myself now for 24 years and if my experience is anything to go by, the general way of it is this :- I think all teachers feel [ or should feel ! ] a little nervous about a new class......or starting in a new school. Usually, the best technique in dealing with this is to be quite strict at first and then to ease off as the teacher feels more confidence in the class 's behaviour and the class feel happy with the teacher 's rules......etc....

 

It 's not a perfect system.......or the whole story ! But, I think a lot of teachers do use that system ; well, I do-----and it sounds as if Len did too ! Yes, a talented man with a great deal of charisma and a lot of us will remember him with fondness.

 

Strangely enough, despite the fact that ' Spiv ' Sellars never made the slightest attempt to ' relate ' to anyone at all, I used to rather like his lessons. He was one of the few teachers who set some work, you got on with it--------and he left you alone. You couldn 't fool around, of course, but, there was no feeling of pressure ! It just shows how not all styles of teaching are ' good ' or ' popular '. I'm sure most students like a bit of variety. The problems in the modern classroom are partly a result, I think, of the false idea that ANY teacher discipline or pressure is a bad thing !!

[Tets 10]

I am interested in this particular topic since I too was a pupil at NEGS from 1945 to 1950. Sencicle Boule had arrived before I left . He was a family friend , I also being from an old family in Gleadless. My uncle was employed at Seagrave nurseries and Sencicle was related to the Harrison Family who owned the nursery after the Seagraves and Wrights,living at that time on Gleadless Common. He was aware of my presence in class(Physics at the time) and our family ties and we maintained a healthy respect for each other. Reminders for old pupils at Negs. Do you remember Claud Rains, Baby Face Wilkinson, Der klein Otto, Simpson(french) , Religion Chambers, fitness Atkinson, Sheffield organist Bilcliffe,English Kershaw, and more interesting fellows. This is an amazing coincidence. Recently I was asked to look into the Solomon Seagrave family history to search out one of his relatives. Again I came up against Sencicle since his family have ties with the Seagrave Nurseries. Any information would be welcomed.

 

 

 

Hi Manaman,

 

Thank you for exploding that myth for me. I don't know where I got hold of it but I can now delete it from my memory banks. The only other bit of gen I have on him is my memory of an entry in the births column of The Star " To Jean (?) and Senc. a son, Sensicle". Can you explode that one too? After all, it is 52 years since I left NEGS and 50 since I left Sheffield.

 

I remember when Vince arrived, he wore a blazer with a Loughborough crest on the pocket; I think it was more his demeanour which put me in mind of the sadistic PTI's that I met a few years later when I joined the RAF.

 

Mike

[manaman 10]

manaman... Glad to see that we're in agreement about Len Buchan, I owe him a great deal. Before reading the many links posted on here (for which, my thanks to the contributors of these, they were fascinating), I hadn't realised that he'd actually passed away at the school. I remember attending his funeral, it was a sad day for me. He never struck me as a strict disciplinarian, although he had no difficulty in controlling a class. Not only could he portray shakesperian characters (I was told that he was a keen amateur dramatics player), he could also interpret the hidden meaning behind their utterances, it was a real eye-opener to find that Shakespeare was a writer of satire, Len made his works come alive!

 

George Wilkinson, whose nickname to us was never anything but 'The Boss', gives an indication of the respect in which he was held! I remember that on the rare occasion that he took a class, he'd select the tough-guy, bad-boy pupil and stand at the front with him, his arm around him, apparently being quite affectionate... an action that would probably give rise to the possibility of prosecution nowadays! He was very skilfull though, whilst the poor lad was squirming under his grip and the undivided attention of the class, The Boss would cleverly 'frisk' him, removing illicit items from his pocket and confiscating them... Lock-knife (all the rage at that time, we used to play 'splits' with them, remember that game?), chewing-gum, etc. All this whilst asking questions of him and the class concerning the lesson. Never a word was said by either the frisked or the frisker about the various items removed, examined and either replaced or confiscated.

 

'Gem' Belcher... Metalwork teacher... New to ABGS... A mutual hatred developed between us, I'd invariably be told to get out of the class each week which suited me fine, it was the last 'double-period' each wednesday, so I'd bunk off early each week.

 

'Charlie' Simpson... Struck fear and terror into us, always wielded a thundering great slipper and the signal for his arrival in the classroom was this thing flying through the door and landing on the desk, he rarely had to call for quiet!

 

I can't cease this rambling before I mention 'Vince', his favourite 'exercise' seemed to be what came to be known as 'The Slipper Game', the idea being that at a given signal, you scrambled for a purchase on designated pieces of equipment, falling off or failing to secure a place clear of the floor meant that you soon understood how the game got its name!

 

How I remember working-up a sweat in winter-time in the 'gym'(the dual-purpose dining-hall at NEGS) and then having to dash across the road to the main building to get a shower! BRRR!

 

Yes, discipline was certainly essential and those that successfully applied it gained our respect, albeit often grudgingly. Those that failed in this regard, looking back, must have had a heck of a time of it!

 

Hi Pseudonym,

You were spot on about Len.

 

I have also experienced the George Wilkinson "hug", although I hasten to say it wasn't with the intention of finding any lock-knives. I had just run into him whilst racing down the corridor as he came round the corner. Needless to say I was very careful where I ran in school after that.

 

O the advantages of having a purpose built school. Metalwork was only a dream. I managed to get one year of woodwork before that ceased to be a taught subject. Luckily art and architecture continued.

 

Never had Charlie Simpson as a teacher. The equivalent teachers I had were; Albert Hill and Puff Cook.

 

I remember the "Slipper Game".

 

Don't forget slipping on the odd bit of potato or cabbage left on the gym/dining room floor if the P.T. (in those days) lesson was the first lesson after dinner.

 

Don't seem to get away from discipline and respect, do we?

[manaman 10]

Yes, Manaman----very interesting comments about old Len ! I hope I didn 't give the wrong impression in my previous comment about Len [ ' the fear ', ' the five fat fingers....etc.....] because, although we only had him in our 1st. year, I 'm sure almost all the class, including me, enjoyed his lessons. [ Nothing wrong with a frisson of fear to make a lesson interesting ! ].

 

I can well understand him relaxing the regime for the 5 th. Years. Against all expectations, I 've been a teacher myself now for 24 years and if my experience is anything to go by, the general way of it is this :- I think all teachers feel [ or should feel ! ] a little nervous about a new class......or starting in a new school. Usually, the best technique in dealing with this is to be quite strict at first and then to ease off as the teacher feels more confidence in the class 's behaviour and the class feel happy with the teacher 's rules......etc....

 

It 's not a perfect system.......or the whole story ! But, I think a lot of teachers do use that system ; well, I do-----and it sounds as if Len did too ! Yes, a talented man with a great deal of charisma and a lot of us will remember him with fondness.

 

Strangely enough, despite the fact that ' Spiv ' Sellars never made the slightest attempt to ' relate ' to anyone at all, I used to rather like his lessons. He was one of the few teachers who set some work, you got on with it--------and he left you alone. You couldn 't fool around, of course, but, there was no feeling of pressure ! It just shows how not all styles of teaching are ' good ' or ' popular '. I'm sure most students like a bit of variety. The problems in the modern classroom are partly a result, I think, of the false idea that ANY teacher discipline or pressure is a bad thing !!

 

Hi Fareast,

I understand the concept in which you used the word "fear". It wasn't so much a fear of punishment, but more a fear of not "performing well" similar to the fear a lot of artistes appear to have before going on stage.

 

Spiv must have been the ultimate "Mr. Cool". I had him for most of the years I was at school. The most extreme example I can give of him not relating to anyone, was when George W.W. came into our 3rd year classroom to cane one of my classmates. Won't go into the reasons why. The boy refused to be caned, and it ended up with George wrestling with the boy on the classroom floor, before he was able to frogmarch the boy out of the classroom back to his office. We all sat there "gobsmacked" except Spiv. He just sat at his desk looking as though this sort of thing happened every day. After George and the boy had gone, he just turned round to us and said,"Get on with your work"!

[manaman 10]

I am interested in this particular topic since I too was a pupil at NEGS from 1945 to 1950. Sencicle Boule had arrived before I left . He was a family friend , I also being from an old family in Gleadless. My uncle was employed at Seagrave nurseries and Sencicle was related to the Harrison Family who owned the nursery after the Seagraves and Wrights,living at that time on Gleadless Common. He was aware of my presence in class(Physics at the time) and our family ties and we maintained a healthy respect for each other. Reminders for old pupils at Negs. Do you remember Claud Rains, Baby Face Wilkinson, Der klein Otto, Simpson(french) , Religion Chambers, fitness Atkinson, Sheffield organist Bilcliffe,English Kershaw, and more interesting fellows. This is an amazing coincidence. Recently I was asked to look into the Solomon Seagrave family history to search out one of his relatives. Again I came up against Sencicle since his family have ties with the Seagrave Nurseries. Any information would be welcomed.

 

Hi Tets,

As I have mentioned in an earlier post, in Pauline Shearstone's book, ISBN 0 9510362 3 8 which is called," A History of Gleadless", there is included what was originally a separate book called, "OLD GLEADLESS, Just a little country village". In this latter section of the book, are four pages devoted to Seagrave Nurseries. It gives details on how the nurseries ownership changed from the Seagrave family to the Harrison family and then finally to the Boul family. It gives information on the people who worked there, as well as having 1926 photographs of the nurseries and the workforce.

The book is a "must have" for old Gleadless families, because it records the recollections of many of the old residents that lived there (including some of my relatives).

 

Back to the Grammar School thread. Yes I remember most of the teachers listed except for Chambers, Atkinson and Kershaw who had moved on by the time I had started at the school.

[Tets 10]

Thanks manaman. Bet we know each others families. Pauline Shearstone is an old friend and lived not far from me. My sister was taught by her as an artist. A lot of the information in the two(three) books of Paulines relate to and was donated by my Father, Uncle and another family member ,the late Ethel Pass. I do have both of the separate copies of the books,but not the combine. However ,I have not seen the section you mention about Seagrave Nursery ownership. My uncle used to work there and often took me on his shoulders,piggy back, to stoke up the fires at night. My grandmother worked in the big house at the entrance for Mrs Harrison. Re NEGS, two of the finest teachers to whom I owe a lot were Wilkinson and Kershaw. Kershaw actually convinced me that Shakespeare is not a load of rubbish. Bilcliffe beat the living daylights out of me with that Blackboard Duster, a solid wooden one. He wanted me to take up music ,but that was like asking a turkey to vote for Christmas. Thanks a lot . Am looking for combined edition.

 

 

Hi Tets,

As I have mentioned in an earlier post, in Pauline Shearstone's book, ISBN 0 9510362 3 8 which is called," A History of Gleadless", there is included what was originally a separate book called, "OLD GLEADLESS, Just a little country village". In this latter section of the book, are four pages devoted to Seagrave Nurseries. It gives details on how the nurseries ownership changed from the Seagrave family to the Harrison family and then finally to the Boul family. It gives information on the people who worked there, as well as having 1926 photographs of the nurseries and the workforce.

The book is a "must have" for old Gleadless families, because it records the recollections of many of the old residents that lived there (including some of my relatives).

 

Back to the Grammar School thread. Yes I remember most of the teachers listed except for Chambers, Atkinson and Kershaw who had moved on by the time I had started at the school.