Sales of Goods Act Advice Needed

[ShefStealth 10]

The router claims to support it and even on the ASUS download page for firmware...

 

So if it didn't support multicast IPTV then why would they be fixing it?

 

The question you then need to ask specifically to Asus is if this firmware is a fix for BT's IPTV implimentation? And if not, then is Asus talking to BT to understand how their IPTV implimentation works so that they can then advise you if their router will work with the BT product offering.

 

Just as an example, if BT are wanting to keep control of their IPTV product offering and are only allowing certain items to connect to their services (such as some sort of a whitelist) then again, their IPTV offering is proprietary and Asus can't be held responsible for their router not being fully compatable with it. It then becomes BT's responsibility as part of the supply of the service to provide you with the means and relevant equipment to receive the service, and to advise you as part of it's TnCs that 3rd party equipment would be incompatable.

 

You see this kind of thing with certain VoIP implimentations for instance - if the VoIP is using open protocols (SIP etc.) then any VoIP hardware should work on their services, but I've seen a number of people try to purchase VoIP hardware to work specifically with Skype for instance, only to find that it won't work as Skype use proprietary protocols for their service.

[walkerx 10]

as there are numerous users who can't get it to work then we believe it is a possible software fault of the router.

 

asus have the setting automatic for providers outside of UK but nothing for UK users - one user says they have it working but not supplied any further feedback as we trying to determine if it could be a particular revision that is working

[ShefStealth 10]

I suppose it also partially depends on how far locked down the BT supplied hardware is, and if it's really locked down, if you can get better access to review the settings locked into it from a lower level (SSH into it for example) else it may require a custom firmware to unlock the settings and features to make them viewable to the customer. Once you know that, then you can be sure that you've got the correct relevant settings in place. Until you know for sure the proper settings, it's a lot more difficult to prove that the 3rd party hardware is really truely at fault or incompatable with the BT service.

 

Because it's proprietary, it may mean Asus having to sign an NDA with BT and for the two companies to work together to resolve this if the community can't. However, seen as BT should supply hardware already and don't really work with 3rd party companies in this way then I can't see that ever happening.

[Cyclone 10]

Whilst Multicast is a standard networking feature, if the way that BT send their multicasting packets is a proprietary technology then the router itself is working as intended, but just not for the specific purpose that the OP wanted it for - it is that case that the OP needs to argue.

It isn't.

He just needs to argue that the multicast feature on the router is broken.

The shop might argue that it is in fact the other bit of technology involved that is faulty.

If he can prove that the router doesn't work to the specification that is provided on the box or in the manual then this is easier to argue, but if the router itself does everything that a router should do and works to the way that the product is advertised itself on the box/website/manual then it is more difficult as he would have to argue the fact that he stipulated the item was required for a specific purpose and that the company's representative wasn't diligent in the duty of care to the customer in mis-advising that the item was fit for his specified purpose.

Multicast is part of what the router should do. If it doesn't do it then it doesn't do what the router should do.

 

You can't seize on the name of the product and pretend that basic 'router' functions are all it's supposed to be able to do.

 

---------- Post added 19-08-2013 at 21:16 ----------

 

The question you then need to ask specifically to Asus is if this firmware is a fix for BT's IPTV implimentation? And if not, then is Asus talking to BT to understand how their IPTV implimentation works so that they can then advise you if their router will work with the BT product offering.

Hopefully this will happen, but in the meantime, if BT are using multicast in the way the protocol specifies and the router is not, then the router is not fit for the purpose it was sold.

 

Just as an example, if BT are wanting to keep control of their IPTV product offering and are only allowing certain items to connect to their services (such as some sort of a whitelist) then again, their IPTV offering is proprietary and Asus can't be held responsible for their router not being fully compatable with it. It then becomes BT's responsibility as part of the supply of the service to provide you with the means and relevant equipment to receive the service, and to advise you as part of it's TnCs that 3rd party equipment would be incompatable.

This is true, but there is no evidence to suggest it is the case.

 

You see this kind of thing with certain VoIP implimentations for instance - if the VoIP is using open protocols (SIP etc.) then any VoIP hardware should work on their services, but I've seen a number of people try to purchase VoIP hardware to work specifically with Skype for instance, only to find that it won't work as Skype use proprietary protocols for their service.

Is there any evidence to suggest that this is the situation here?

 

---------- Post added 19-08-2013 at 21:17 ----------

 

Because it's proprietary, it may mean Asus having to sign an NDA with BT and for the two companies to work together to resolve this if the community can't. However, seen as BT should supply hardware already and don't really work with 3rd party companies in this way then I can't see that ever happening.

 

Is it proprietary? That seems very unlikely.

[walkerx 10]

The Billion 7800DXN works, The TP-Link Archer C7 Router also works.

 

If you set IPTV manually to a particular port it will push some traffic through (ie the test channel on epg 900, but the BT Sports won't work and then neither will on-demand) For multicast and IGMP it should allow traffic through when an IPTV channel is requested and when not in use should allow standard Internet through so on-demand, etc will work.

 

this is bt info i acquired from a link I got supplied from the Youview community forum - the link is no longer valid (pdf document (i do have a copy of it))

 

For an end user connected via Openreach GEA (FTTC and FTTH)

• The Residential Gateway will support

– IPoE for multicast traffic and PPPoE for BB traffic

– VLAN tag ID of 0 or no VLAN tag ID for multicast and BB traffic

– Fork IGMP requests up multicast and BB paths

 

For an end user connected to an MSAN (WBC copper)

• The Residential Gateway will support a dual VC architecture

– Accept TV Connect multicast traffic on ATM VP/VC 0/35 with IPoE and broadband traffic on ATM VP/VC 0/38 with PPPoE

– Fork IGMP requests up multicast and broadband paths

 

Another document is located here

 

BT look to be using standard protocols, so I see no reason why it shouldn't work via the ASUS

[Fudbeer 12]

Cases like this boil down to the following:

 

Is it faulty?

 

If not but it wont work for your specific needs were these made clear at time of purchase and was the issue highlighted promptly ?

 

If it was and it is verified by the salesperson then they should help you.

 

If not or either of the above fall into a grey area then its down to managers discretion but after nearly 4 months your chances may be slim.

 

However if it was me I would go down to the store and speak to a manager explain the problems you have had and the lengths you have gone to try and fix it without kicking off and ask if they will help, in my experience you are more likely to get a result this way than talking to the call centre who basically read from a script.

[WeX 10]

you don't need multicast to watch TV over the internet. Any BB over 8MB will work fine.

[walkerx 10]

you don't need multicast to watch TV over the internet. Any BB over 8MB will work fine.

 

For IPTV channels which use multicast/igmp do require multicast to watch, if it didn't do you think BT would have wasted so much money in upgrading exchanges up/down the country for multicast to be ready for BT Sports and other IP channels.

 

Unicast - Used mainly for on-demand using a one-to-one connection and requires more overheads

Multicast - Used to stream the same single stream to multiple receivers so the content is the same on all devices

 

Unicast = NetFlix, Love Film, BT Vision - an individual stream to each end user

Multicast = IPTV, BT Sports, Freeview, Sky, Cable - an individual stream to multiple uses so everyone sees the same content

 

Obvious question and I assume you have done it, but just to check you do have or have upgraded to that firmware?

 

---------- Post added 20-08-2013 at 13:12 ----------

 

Also, this may seem unrelated but are any of the products that are connected apple products?. If so turn off the apple products and then see if it works.

 

I've seen issues where in order to get (some) apple products to work correctly multicast has to be turned off, makes me wonder if they could affect it the other way round too.

 

Yes, I'm on the latest firmware and as said there are others in exactly the same boat. So far only 1 person reckons they have it working (a first poster on the bt forums, while everyone else as not got it working with ASUS, even my D-Link doesn't work but I purchased that years ago because of the issues I had with Ripwire and never thought about using it for multicast at the time)

 

Nothing to do with apple products as when testing wife has been out with her iphone

 

I'm going to try tweeting asus again to see if can get some response from them - may also try to ring their uk number on thursday if get a chance

[Mikes10 10]

Having had a quick read of the following document, I get the distinct impression that you

have to use the router supplied by BT, another observation is it requires IGPMv3, (page 20).

Does the Asus router support IGMPv3?

 

8. ISP Responsibilities (page 23)

 

The ISP will be responsible for the Residential Gateway (home router) and set top box functionality

within the end user’s environment. The Residential Gateway (home router) will proxy IGMP requests

upstream onto the TV Connect path and into the Broadband PPP path towards the BRAS.

 

http://www.sinet.bt.com/511v1p3.pdf

[walkerx 10]

Having had a quick read of the following document, I get the distinct impression that you

have to use the router supplied by BT, another observation is it requires IGPMv3, (page 20).

Does the Asus router support IGMPv3?

 

8. ISP Responsibilities (page 23)

 

The ISP will be responsible for the Residential Gateway (home router) and set top box functionality

within the end user’s environment. The Residential Gateway (home router) will proxy IGMP requests

upstream onto the TV Connect path and into the Broadband PPP path towards the BRAS.

 

http://www.sinet.bt.com/511v1p3.pdf

 

Hi,

 

This is one of the answers I'm trying to get out of ASUS

 

regards

 

---------- Post added 22-08-2013 at 12:21 ----------

 

An update for you all - factory reset router then performed firmware update from first update to last. Still no luck so factory reset again, took to meadowhall and explained situation and they refunded on the spot.