Does God Exist?

[adaline]

Case closed

[Mercenary]

Do we have any proof of God, if we use the Bible as a yardstick men should have 1 less rib than women untrue.

Ho saw Adam eat the apple with Eve and wrote it down. Is there one shread of evidence to back up the old testiment or indeed the new testiment.

 

I think not

 

No, it is a cirular argument that Christians use.

 

"I know the Bible is true."

 

"How do you know the Bible is true?"

 

"The Bible tells me."

 

Ad nauseum.

[sandie]

Perhaps I'm 'massively too generous' because I've spent the majority of my adult life studying Egyptology and archaeology and working as an environmental archaeologist.

 

 

 

Noah's flood is an interesting example and should not be dismissed as quickly as you seem to think. In 1955 a series of tablets were recovered from Meggido in Palestine, which predate the Israelite presence in the Promised Land, that are known collectively as the Epic of Gilgamesh. In the story "Utnapishtim, the hero of the Flood myth, tells his story to Gilgamesh, which is related to the Babylonian Epic of Atrahasis" (1). In the Sumerian epic the gods destroyed mankind because the population had become too numerous and chaotic and the god Enki decided to save one man who was to build a cube shaped vessel that would save the seeds of all living things. The deluge lasted 7 days.

 

The Old Testament therefore seems to draw upon earlier sources of Sumerian tradition and it proves that the Hebrew writers of the day did not exist in a vacuum, but shared and adapted the current traditions of fellow people in the Middle East. There is evidence of severe flood events all across the Middle East that date throughout the period- any one of these could have led to the development of an oral tradition that was eventually to become legend in the Epic of Gilgamesh and later the Old Testament.

 

 

 

Well most people are aware that Jesus Christ serves as a metaphor rather than a true human figure. 'Christus' translates as the 'messiah'. His birth, his death and many of the stories surrounding his life have astrological and metaphorical significance. However, many of the places he was said in the Bible to visit do exist- Allenby Bridge on the River Jordan is the traditional site of the baptism of Jesus at Beth-Abarah, the rock tombs in Jerusalem also exist and are known as the Silwan Necropolis.

 

There are also some early Roman sources that mention Christ. In 116AD, for example, Tacitus wrote -

 

"Nero fastened the guilt of starting the blaze and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians [Chrestians] by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius 14–37 at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular."

 

 

 

In terms of the Exodus, there are interesting sites at Khatana-Qantir and Tell el-Dab'a that contain a Semitic cultural layer on top of the Middle Kingdom Egyptian layer, which indicates that Palestinian/ Syrian nomads were present in Egypt. Interestingly, although the Egyptians never wrote of minority people's such as the Hebrews, there is an Egyptian folklore, that is ascribed to Manetho in the 3rd century BC that describes the Egyptians throwing out a gang of plague-bringers and driving them to Palestine where they founded Jerusalem. John Romer has also linked a number of the Egyptian pharoahs mentioned in the Bible with real pharoahs that we know existed based upon the Abydos King list, the Palermo stone and the Saqqara tablet etc.

 

I don't really think it's fair to judge the Bible's historicity by modern standards. We are obsessed with dates, linear time and facts, they were obsessed with genealogy, cyclical time and oral legends. I've discussed some of the archaeological evidence that relates to the points you raised, but Biblical archaeology is a massive subject and there is plenty more evidence out there. As such, I hope I've proved to you that your view, whilst not being entirely wrong, is far too simplistic.

 

I'm not saying that the Bible is a perfect historical account, it is very far from it. The Bible is a religious, philosophical and metaphorical text with some basis on skewed oral traditions and cultural adaptations that originally developed from real events and real places. For me, it's no more or less interesting than the other ancient texts, whether written in cuneiform, hieroglyphics, demotic script or ancient Greek that bring to life the world's prehistoric past and give us a fascinating insight into the minds of past peoples.

 

(1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh

 

A good account from paper and word of mouth, where is the hard evidence I dont think you will be able to provide that information.

[Cavegirl]

A good account from paper and word of mouth, where is the hard evidence I dont think you will be able to provide that information.

 

What kind of prehistoric 'hard' evidence of literary texts are you looking for exactly?

 

Can you provide some examples of what you think would be suitable please?

[Mercenary]

A good account from paper and word of mouth, where is the hard evidence I dont think you will be able to provide that information.

 

I think you are missing the point though. It is called a 'faith' because there is no hard evidence. If there was then the followers wouldn't need to 'have faith'. It would just be clear to everyone that it is correct which would also negate a reason for there to be a Church, a Pope etc etc.

[jiandizzle]

even freemasons acknowlege that there is a supreme architect for the universe and their forebarers were the leading scientists who shunned religion.

 

I just see it like this, your bodies internal temperature is 37 degrees, even a 3 degree adjustment either way will leave you for worse, maybe dead.

 

If god didnt create that I dont know what did

[Mercenary]

even freemasons acknowlege that there is a supreme architect for the universe and their forebarers were the leading scientists who shunned religion.

 

I just see it like this, your bodies internal temperature is 37 degrees, even a 3 degree adjustment either way will leave you for worse, maybe dead.

 

If god didnt create that I dont know what did

 

Freemasons? Are you serious or just trolling?

[MadnBad]

even freemasons acknowlege that there is a supreme architect for the universe and their forebarers were the leading scientists who shunned religion.

 

I just see it like this, your bodies internal temperature is 37 degrees, even a 3 degree adjustment either way will leave you for worse, maybe dead.

 

If god didnt create that I dont know what did

 

You think god created us with a time bomb temperature problem that's an interesting idea sounds like he created us to live in good old temperate blighty. no particular extremes here.

Bloody good thing he didn't create us with a rain time bomb or living here could get a bit tricky we'd all turn into mole people, like the morlocks.

[jiandizzle]

mercenary may i ask you to elaborate on your post

[jiandizzle]

madnbad what are you ranting about, i was just trying to say that look at how delicate our internal organs are, some being must have been the architect of humans

 

we didnt just come out of thin air i mean some people claim to be rational logical etc but then seem to think that the complex human evolved from a primordial soup

 

also if Darwins theory was so correct, why cant we see partial evolution in some of the present monkey species