8000 millionaires to get 100000 tax cuts

[S10mainly]

Taking off the poor to pay the rich......Nawt new here...

 

define "the poor" and "the rich"....

[I1L2T3]

define "the poor" and "the rich"....

 

The genuinely rich have a a generous income. The poor do not.

 

Forget about abstract notions of richness or wealth such as the sale value of a home or some other asset. They don't count for much unless you cash them in and by cashing them in I don't mean borrowing against them to increase your debt burden.

 

As we are talking about taxes some definition based around income is probably most appropriate if you want to make comparisons with a generally asset poor group of people, i.e. those with low incomes.

[S10mainly]

But Im genuinely not sure what is meant by Low or High incomes?

 

The other thing I don't understand is the attitude that the Rich (who ever they are) should pay.....I used to live in one of the most "income divided" areas in Engalnd, and we used to be more laughing at the Rich rather than hating them.....I genuinely don't get this hate the Rich thing that goes off round Sheffield

[I1L2T3]

But Im genuinely not sure what is meant by Low or High incomes?

 

It's a difficult subject for sure. Maybe you could look at tax bands as a starting point.

[S10mainly]

Working on what I do know, train drivers earn about £45000 p/a.... that would make them "pretty rich", but they are all* ASLEF members. a rather Leftist Union

 

I know some are RMT but they are the ones with taste

[L00b]

Again, no evidence that they left. Only that they may have changed their tax planning. Not quite the same thing are they

Personally, I know of two who left the country in recent years as (let's call it-) extreme tax planning (it is the same thing, in that one eventually follows from the other), and who now live overseas.

 

Both are in South East Asia, with UK businesses still going nicely and strong (and employing people, and paying corpo tax, etc.)

 

I am in regular touch with one of them for business purposes.

 

Anecdotally, you could also look at what is happening on the other side of the Channel. It's certainly not 'evidence' as such, but considering the cause (one tax hike too far) and context ("tax-the-rich" more for political gain than effective tax income gain) are similar, that the effect (FU I'm off) would likewise be similar over here is not that much of a stretch

Edited December 5, 2012 by L00b

[I1L2T3]

Personally, I know of two who left the country in recent years as (let's call it-) extreme personal tax planning and who now live overseas. Both are in South East Asia, with UK businesses still going nicely and strong (and employing people, and paying corpo tax, etc.) I am in regular touch with one of them for business purposes.

 

Anecdotally, you could look at what is happening on the other side of the Channel. It's certainly not 'evidence' as such, but considering the cause and context are similar, that the effect would likewise be similar is not that much of a stretch

 

You could look at it but we are told they are coming here from France to take advantage of our low 50p (soon to be 45p) top tax band, also no doubt the subject of an article in the Telegraph.

 

Maybe the influx of affluent French people will make up for the fact that most of our millionaires seem to have left the country

 

---------- Post added 05-12-2012 at 21:46 ----------

 

Working on what I do know, train drivers earn about £45000 p/a.... that would make them "pretty rich", but they are all* ASLEF members. a rather Leftist Union

 

I know some are RMT but they are the ones with taste

 

£45,000 is not rich with the current cost of living, especially not if you had to live in the part of the country with the highest density of rail lines and services.

[L00b]

You could look at it but we are told they are coming here from France to take advantage of our low 50p (soon to be 45p) top tax band, also no doubt the subject of an article in the Telegraph.

I wouldn't, and

Maybe the influx of affluent French people will make up for the fact that most of our millionaires seem to have left the country

wouldn't count on that either: England hasn't got that much (in terms of competitive advantage) on Belgium or Switzerland, and all 3 are but stepping stones (they're only passing through, mark my words )

 

Technically, for French tax asylum seekers, I suppose you could call the UK, Belgium and Switzerland the "nearest safe countries"

Edited December 5, 2012 by L00b

[S10mainly]

I don't think £45k is a lot, particularly for the job they do, but to those on the NMW it must seen a fortune...so train drivers are rich....They are certainly the richest "working class job"

Cant recall the source but it was a good one

[truman]

The reason we are taxed heavily by the government is because of the fraudulent debt we are told we owe, so who do we owe it too?

 

---------- Post added 05-12-2012 at 17:58 ----------

 

You do..........

 

Where have I said that...you're making stuff up now...

 

---------- Post added 06-12-2012 at 09:32 ----------

 

Where are the official stats that prove that the tax take reduced when the 50p rate was introduced? That article doesn't link to any, it's just based on an assertion from a Tory MP.

 

Also, the article quite possibly has the most misleading title I've ever seen. There is no evidence in the article that the millionaires left the country but it does say this:

 

'It is believed that rich Britons moved abroad or took steps to avoid paying the new levy by reducing their taxable incomes'.

 

Again, no evidence that they left. Only that they may have changed their tax planning. Not quite the same thing are they

 

Quite possibly one of the worst and most misleading articles I've read for a long time.

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/budget2012/excheq-income-tax-2042.pdf

 

If you've half an hour have a read...

 

Here's the summary

 

"Summary

5.64 This Chapter has described how the 2010-11 Self Assessment data has been used to provide a first ex-post assessment of the additional rate Exchequer yield. Although the estimates are subject to a wide range of uncertainty, they suggest that the underlying yield is much lower than originally forecast, possibly only raising £1 billion at most. These results are more in line with those that would be produced using the behavioural response estimates contained in academic literature. This conclusion is also consistent with the £3.6 billion shortfall in Self Assessment tax revenues observed in January and February 2012 (the months in which balancing payments relating to 2010-11 liabilities are received)."

Edited December 6, 2012 by truman