Gotit Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Took almost 200 years yes, began 50 years after his death. I was answering the original question, not asking it. The bible or tora and the new testament are linked. The koran is as already stated a copy with arabic culture thrown in and a few new rules and rituals. The koran is a massive backwards step in comparison to the new testament. The only place I can think of that could mention muhammed is in Revelations, The whole anti christ beast thing. Any proof/evidence ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Any proof/evidence ! It's not up to us to provide proof, if you want us to believe that the Quran we have today dates back to the time of Muhammed it's up to you to prove it. I was quite shocked by that Tom Holland documentary on channel 4 recently, I had no idea that so much of the early history of Islam is completely unsubstantiated. I thought he just dealt with the ancient world, but apparently he's branching out, he's written an accompanying book apparently that's causing quite a storm too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenRivers Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 It's not up to us to provide proof, if you want us to believe that the Quran we have today dates back to the time of Muhammed it's up to you to prove it. I was quite shocked by that Tom Holland documentary on channel 4 recently, I had no idea that so much of the early history of Islam is completely unsubstantiated. I thought he just dealt with the ancient world, but apparently he's branching out, he's written an accompanying book apparently that's causing quite a storm too. Don't mention Tom Holland, it causes believers to irrationally and involuntarily call for the heathen heretic to be burned at the stake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Don't mention Tom Holland, it causes believers to irrationally and involuntarily call for the heathen heretic to be burned at the stake. I had no idea it was him until I watched the documentary a few weeks ago. A friend told me about it and I was very skeptical and was ready to dismiss it as anti-Muslim nonsense but then I saw it was the author of a couple of my favorite books presenting it. To be honest I'm kind of disappointed in myself for never treating the question of the historicity of the accepted version of the life of Muhammed presented to us by Muslim scholars skeptically. I mean obviously I'd always dismissed the miracles and such but I'd accepted much of it, now I don't know what to think, it seems just as muddled as the early history of Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotit Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 It's not up to us to provide proof, if you want us to believe that the Quran we have today dates back to the time of Muhammed it's up to you to prove it. I was quite shocked by that Tom Holland documentary on channel 4 recently, I had no idea that so much of the early history of Islam is completely unsubstantiated. I thought he just dealt with the ancient world, but apparently he's branching out, he's written an accompanying book apparently that's causing quite a storm too. Are you convinced by this documentary ? Do you think it's accurate ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Are you convinced by this documentary ? Do you think it's accurate ? My mind is not made up on that yet, I know Tom Holland as the author of two very good and well received books on the Roman republic and the Greco-Persian wars, he's no hack that's for sure. I don't think he's got an axe to grind, and I've not looked into criticism of his new work yet. I think I'm going to get his new book on Islam, ask me again in a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Talker Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Don't mention Tom Holland, it causes believers to irrationally and involuntarily call for the heathen heretic to be burned at the stake. I don't want to see him burnt at the stake , FGS, but I was not at all impressed by that programme he presented the other week. Quite inaccurate and poorly researched IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I don't want to see him burnt at the stake , FGS, but I was not at all impressed by that programme he presented the other week. Quite inaccurate and poorly researched IMO. Could you perhaps explain how you came to that conclusion? Also whilst you may not want him burnt at the stake, the program did inspire some of your fellow travelers to threaten the film makers to the extent that they had to cancel a private screening in London due to security concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Talker Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Could you perhaps explain how you came to that conclusion? Also whilst you may not want him burnt at the stake, the program did inspire some of your fellow travelers to threaten the film makers to the extent that they had to cancel a private screening in London due to security concerns. things that were obvious, jimmy, such as him going on about no written proof being found, from the time of Mohammed... had he researched it correctly, he would have known that it was a mainly oralist society, so things were written down infrequently. That's just one flaw I found in his premise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EbonyBranch Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 things that were obvio us, jimmy, such as him going on about no written proof being found, from the time of Mohammed... had he researched it correctly, he would have known that it was a mainly oralist society, so things were written down infrequently. That's just one flaw I found in his premise... So, you object to his claim that nothing was written down because his claim is accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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