More staffy attacks on kids

[jimmyhoops]

I didn't intend to start a new thread on this topic but it appears that my old one from about a year ago has been locked.

 

Anyway I just wanted to highlight that dog attacks on children have been in the news again and as usual it's the same breed of dog responsible.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-18320701

 

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north-east-news/evening-chronicle-news/2012/06/09/staffordshire-bull-terrier-bites-byker-girl-in-the-face-72703-31147620/

 

http://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/2012-06-08/8-year-old-attacked-by-dog/

 

And staffys don't just stop at attacking kids, they even attack guide dogs too.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-18022431

 

How anyone can read stories like this and defend this vicious breed, I don;t know. It's time they were banned once and for all.

STAFFYS ARE NOT EVEN ON THERE,JUST GOES TO SHOW HOW MISLEAD YOU ARE

 

The media has played a part in presenting certain dog breeds in a bad light, portraying them as aggressive and dangerous, in light of recent dog attacks: 4 children have been killed by dogs in 30 months. We even have a law called the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 which states that pit bull terriers, Japanese Tosa, Dogo Argentino and Fila Brasileiro are too dangerous to own or breed from so it is now illegal to do so in the UK. Dogs such as the pit bull terrier present a tough image which appeals to some people, particularly young men who use them and other breeds as status symbols to make themselves appear tougher. In these cases the dogs aren’t properly trained and aggressive behaviour may be actively encouraged by isolating the dog so that it isn’t used to or comfortable with strangers, or by teasing and provoking the dog encouraging it to bark and bite. Some breeds were originally selectively bred for fighting, so have a greater tendency for aggression and have certain qualities such as a strong jaw, or they bite and don’t let go for a while. Therefore if they do attack then the consequences can be fatal, and there is usually much media coverage.

 

Four breeds: the Pit Bull Terrier, Dogo Argentino, Fila Brasileiro and Japanese Tosa, are now illegal to own or breed under the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, unless you have an exemption from the court and follow the guidelines they lay down.

 

However any dog can bite, especially if it is not trained or socialised properly, isolated, neglected or encouraged to behave aggressively. Allowing a dog to behave aggressively makes the dog think that this is appropriate behaviour, and if it gets attention on demand it believes that it is the top dog. If a dog thinks that it is at the top of the hierarchy then it may become aggressive if its status is challenged, such as being given a command: it believes that it is the top dog so it should demand attention not the other way around; or if another member of the family receives more attention than it.

 

The problem is that current bite statistics can be misleading because many dog bites go unreported and only bites that require medical attention are taken into account for these statistics. This means that dogs that have specific fighting qualities from when they were used as fighting dogs or hunters, or larger dogs with more strength appear to be more aggressive than they actually are. When a pit bull terrier attacks it is more likely to have serious consequences, but some breeds from the toy group can be just as aggressive but their bites have little effect so the incidence isn’t reported and a distorted image is presented about aggressive dogs.

 

A recent study carried out on 6,000 dogs and their owners found out 33 of the most aggressive dogs, and also those which have good temperaments. The study involved collecting data from two different groups. The first group consisted of 11 different breeds and the second was an online survey mainly involving owners, including 33 breeds. The conclusions from both groups were similar. It looked at the different types of aggression such as towards other dogs, towards strangers and towards owners. Some of the results were surprising, below are the top ten most aggressive breed:

 

Dachshunds

Chihuahua

Jack Russell

Australian Cattle Dog

Cocker Spaniel

Beagle

Border Collie

Pit Bull Terrier

Great Dane

English Springer Spaniel

 

The Dachshund, otherwise known as the Sausage dog, was originally bred to hunt badgers. They came out as the most aggressive breed with 1 in 5 reported to have bitten or tried to bite a stranger and 1 in 12 snapping at their owners.

Overall the results found that dog-dog aggression was higher than aggression towards people. This could be due to the fact that dogs are territorial creatures so try to defend their territory by chasing away, or attacking, anything that threatens it. Also they live in packs that have social hierarchies: the higher members demand attention from the lower ranks. If this hierarchy is threatened, unstable or challenged then dogs can become aggressive. Other dogs can challenge their status, such as a new puppy entering the pack, or people can, such as a new baby getting more attention than the dog. Owners should try to make themselves top dog by demanding attention and not the other way around (your dog demanding attention when it wants it) you should also control the good things such as treats and toy, and your dog should earn these from you by obeying commands.

 

Smaller dogs tend to be towards the top of this list which may be surprising. However, because they are small they may be genetically predisposed to be aggressive as a way of counteracting their size and ensuring their survival. Also because they are small they can easily feel threatened by bigger dogs or people so they become aggressive to defend themselves. Fear is one of the main reasons for aggressions. Lastly small dogs are usually considered cute and are often spoilt by their owners which gives them a higher status in the pack which may then be challenged. Also since their bites often have little effect they are allowed to continue and some people even think it is cute, however, this only makes the problem worse and the dogs can become more aggressive.

 

The top ten least aggressive dogs:

 

Labrador Retriever

Rhodesian Ridgeback

Poodle

Greyhound

Whippet

Brittany Spaniel

Siberian Husky

Golden Retriever

Havanese

Portuguese water dog

 

These dogs also rated low for “watchdog” behaviour and “territorial defence” behaviour so they tend to make lovable family pets.

 

Some dogs that have a bad image and are considered aggressive are the Boxer, Bulldogs, Pit Bull Terriers, Great Danes, Mastiffs, German Shepherds and Rottweilers. According to this study this is how they ranked:

 

Great Dane: 9. This breed is actually very patient, gentle and affectionate. Although its size can be an issue with small children, it gets on well with children.

Rottweilers: 15. This dog is very loyal and can be fiercely protective which may cause it to be aggressive. However, it is a hard working, powerful, devoted dog that gets on well with children if they are brought up with them.

Boxer: 16. These dogs are actually good with children. They make good watchdogs. As they have a protective nature; they may be aggressive if they feel their owner is being threatened.

German Shepherds (Alsatians): 17. An alert, loyal, courageous and intelligent breed. These dogs are good with children and they are very protective making them effective watchdogs.

Mastiffs: 21. These dogs are very dignified, loyal creatures with a pleasant nature, resembling gentle giants. Their size means they can be a problem with small children, but they get on well with children.

 

Other dogs that are known to be aggressive include:

 

Chow Chow: this is a “one person dog”. It forms a very strong bond with one person (usually the owner) and is ferocious around strangers who it considers a threat to its owner. It is a good guard dog, but it can bite without warning and they are tenacious fighters.

Papillon: These dogs are fiercely loyal of their owners and can be very possessive, they don’t like strangers either.

Old English Sheepdogs: Again these dogs are very protective of their owners. They are strong-willed and independent and they will nip either other animals or children.

Lhasa Apso: These dogs can be cranky and unpredictable; they are strong-willed and independent. They were originally bred as guard dogs.

Giant Schnauzers: They are very dominant and will challenge adults and strangers.

Pekingese: These dogs do not like strangers and can be very aggressive towards them

Miniature Pinschers: These are little dogs but they can be very aggressive to compensate for this.

 

However, every dog is different and won’t always fit its breed stereotype: just because its breed is generally considered to be gentle or sweet natured doesn’t guarantee that your dog will be the same. Any dog can be aggressive and bite so you must make sure that you put aside the time to train it and socialize it properly so that it is more comfortable in unfamiliar circumstances and with strangers. Before you get a dog it is worthwhile researching breeds to make sure that you choose one that is suitable for your lifestyle, i.e. it is good with children if you have any in the family, or not getting a fragile dog if you are a large family. However good a dog is said to be with children and however well behaved it you should never leave children unsupervised with a dog; often they can provoke it without meaning to and little children can be defenceless against a dog.

Edited June 16, 2012 by jimmyhoops

[Forumosaurus]

http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?30405-Staffy-Cross-Saves-Mom-and-Daughter-from-Arson

 

http://www.itchmo.com/hero-dog-saves-owner-from-stabbing-1975

 

http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/rottweiler-news-forum/74200-rottie-staffy-save-boy-drowning-australia.html

 

http://www.staffordmall.com/bella-sa.htm

 

1st: This is just a scared dog barking because his house is on fire. He wasn't trying to wake anybody. A dog has no concept that a fire can burn you to death.

 

2nd: This is a dog barking at a stranger. A dog has no concept that knife will penetrate the skin and rupture vital organs.

 

3rd: I just plain don't believe. No one saw the dog drag the kid out. They found a boy and two dogs next to him at the side of some water. A dog as no concept that if water fills the lungs a major failure of the respiratory system occurs.

 

4th: A dog attacking a stranger. A dog has no concept that being shot in the brain is often fatal.

 

The media loves to make up stories about dogs and how heroic they are, they make stuff up, they twist facts, they say things out of context.

 

If a dog is scared, it will attack. Just like in the stories you just listed. Unfortunately kids jumping and screaming is the same to a dog as an attacker jumping and screaming. They make absolutely no distinction what-so-ever.

 

Staffies are dangerous, not because they sometimes bite people, all breeds sometimes bite people. Staffies are dangerous because of how powerful they are, they're strong, muscular dogs. All dogs have zero morals. Anything strong and powerful with no morels is dangerous.

 

Just because a dog will sit or roll over for a biscuit, people will say it's intelligent. No. It wants a biscuit. It learned when you trained it that it would get a biscuit, and now it's just a response without cognitive thought. They have no morals, they're stupid, and if you scare it it will rip your kids face off.

Edited June 16, 2012 by Forumosaurus

[EmilyM]

I think very small (toy) dogs can behave worse, some people don't put as much effort into training them because they are seen as not dangerous, so they don't need to bother.

I believe Staffies can be great family dogs. However, breeding for aggression and a minority of bad owners have given the breed a bad name.

[PaliRichard]

I've tried doing a search for statistics but can't find what I'm looking for.

 

At a guess (if anyone has the stats I'd love to see if my guess is correct) the % of attacks by staffy's in relation to staffy population are far less than the % of attacks by humans (on other humans) in relation to human population.

 

For those who are calling for them all to be destroyed does this mean we should destroy all humans 'just in case' too?

 

If anyone here thinks that staffy's are vicious I openly invite you to spend as much time as you like with mine. The only thing he will inflict on you is friendship and over excitement. I would trust him more than any random stranger with children.

 

As far as Forumosaurus' post I have a couple of issues.

 

If a dog is scared, it will attack[/Quote]

 

Is not true, just like people the majority of scared dogs wont attack, they are too scared to. The ones that will attack are more prone to if scared, just like people. Most will cower if scared. My wife would sit and cry if scared, I would hurt the attacker, it's not a given that anyone/animal that is scared will automatically attack.

 

Unfortunately kids jumping and screaming is the same to a dog as an attacker jumping and screaming. They make absolutely no distinction what-so-ever[/Quote]

 

Wrong. Unless all the dogs I've ever lived with are exceptions, to a dog a child jumping and screaming is a child jumping and screaming, it's more likely to encourage the dog to go bananas with excitement thinking it's play time than attack.

 

Staffies are dangerous, not because they sometimes bite people, all breeds sometimes bite people. Staffies are dangerous because of how powerful they are, they're strong, muscular dogs. All dogs have zero morals. Anything strong and powerful with no morels is dangerous[/Quote]

 

More than wrong, probably the least educated thing so far, a dogs weight alone doesn't account for a % of danger. My staffy has a pound for pound ratio far more than an alsation or boxer (two other 'freindly' breeds) but if I was going to be attacked by one I would hope it was a staffy. I've been 'attacked' (in a friendly manner) by all three and I can assure you if an alsation or boxer took umbridge with me it would be far harder to stop them than a staffy.

 

Just because a dog will sit or roll over for a biscuit, people will say it's intelligent. No. It wants a biscuit. It learned when you trained it that it would get a biscuit, and now it's just a response without cognitive thought. They have no morals, they're stupid, and if you scare it it will rip your kids face off[/Quote]

 

The staffy I have at the moment is the most intelligent dog I've ever known, not because he's been 'trained', but because he has innate intelligence. I've known thick dogs, relatively clever dogs and really intelligent dogs. Again, like people, they vary, and your statement is not born out by real life. If it were true every scared dog would attack, every dog at some point gets scared, yet relatively few attack, you are talking absolute nonsense.

Edited June 16, 2012 by PaliRichard

[Gazza58]

because thats what makes good reading,if the press were to report every dog attack every day i think you will find staffs and other bull terriers are way down the list hence its took you nearly a year to start your hate mongering again, you have clearly no knowledge or undersstanding of any bull terrier breeds or dogs full stop, BLAME THE DEED NOT THE BREED

 

Spot on:thumbsup:

[Forumosaurus]

PaliRichard

 

You have a Staffy. Your bias.

 

No. A dog cannot tell the difference between a kid shouting and screaming and an adult shouting and screaming unless they know it.

 

And I can prove it. All these poor kids that have been mauled by Staffies were not adults.

 

If dogs weren't stupid, they would know not too, because they're small and vulnerable and week. But they don't, they bite their faces off.

[PaliRichard]

PaliRichard

 

You have a Staffy. Your bias[/Quote]

 

Having a staffy does not make me bias, it makes me aware of what they're actually like, rather than having a skewed opinion about a whole breed from a small (very small % wise) number of incedents. If I were to put your opinion into perspective I could say all men are paedophiles because some are, and what proof do I have? Well we read in the news that men are paedophiles don't we, so it must be true.

 

No. A dog cannot tell the difference between a kid shouting and screaming and an adult shouting and screaming unless they know it[/Quote]

 

You're trying to add extra criteria on now to prove your point. Unfortunately you're still wrong. My brother in law stayed with us recently with his new born, his 3 yr old and his 5 yr old. It was the first time my dog had met any of them (including my brother in law). My dog was curious (but not invasive) about the new born, the 3 and 5 year olds were typically excitable and did plenty of shouting and screaming and jumping up and down. As I previously said, he (and all other dogs I have known in similar situations) didn't see it as aggressive behaviour, he took it as very small children being giddy, and behaved equally giddily back. If (and he hasn't been in this position but I can imagine his response) he was faced with an adult shouting and screaming I would imagine he would cower with fear, not the same response at all.

 

And I can prove it. All these poor kids that have been mauled by Staffies were not adults[/Quote]

 

That's not proof of what you're saying, you (nor I) know the circumstances. We don't know how the dog was treated in every day life, we don't know if the child was being aggressive to the dog when it 'turned'. You can't make the assumption that 'staffy's' are dangerous on a small % of cases that we don't know the circumstances of, that, in no way shape or form, is 'proof'.

 

If dogs weren't stupid, they would know not too, because they're small and vulnerable and week. But they don't, they bite their faces off.

 

But as we (that is, we on this post who actually know staffy's) have established, the majority don't bite kids faces off. As I stated in my previous post it would be easy to establish evidence if they did, and they would have been banned long before now.

 

Let's look at the facts.

 

Owners of said breed speak highly of their demeanor and behaviour.

 

Experts (RSPCA, various dog trusts) speak highly of them, and in fact, highlight the problem is one of them being mistreated by owners, which is predominantly what makes them aggressive, just like when humans have been mistreated, they are more prone to aggressive behaviour themselves.

 

Unless you are saying that humans, on the whole, are aggressive and prone to attacking children for no reason (which I would invite you to substantiate) I can't see how you can make the argument for one and not the other, when the evidence for both says the same thing.

 

I will repeat my earlier invitation, you are more than welcome to come and spend as much time as you like with my dog. At least if you are going to make the accusation spend time with one to get a balanced view.

[southcoast]

Any adult who has a breed like a staffy and has kids is a fool,its asking for trouble,some owners just dont have the brains to work out whats safe and whats not.

[Gazza58]

I got my first staffie over thirty years ago,they were pretty rare then and you hardly saw any.The reason i got a staffy was ,my eldest son was only two then and after speaking to a good few dog experts regarding what is the best type of dog to have with a child in the house.i Everyone of them said one of the bull breeds,either a staffie.bulldog,or a english bull terrier,the reason given was all children will at some time pull the dogs tail,stand on it,poke it in the eye ,etc and any one of these dogs will never retaliate.Yeah there are some idiot owners out there,bad training,bad breading,but this is not the dogs fault.

[onewheeldave]

 

The problem is that current bite statistics can be misleading because many dog bites go unreported and only bites that require medical attention are taken into account for these statistics. This means that dogs that have specific fighting qualities from when they were used as fighting dogs or hunters, or larger dogs with more strength appear to be more aggressive than they actually are. When a pit bull terrier attacks it is more likely to have serious consequences, but some breeds from the toy group can be just as aggressive but their bites have little effect so the incidence isn’t reported and a distorted image is presented about aggressive dogs.

 

 

But this aspect is highly relevant!

 

We all know that, for example, Yorkshire Terriers can be very aggressive and liable to bite. It's true that they are less likely to be reported for biting than a Staffy or Rotweiler would be, but that's cos a Yorkshire Terrier is unlikely to do any major harm, however aggressive they are.

 

Whereas a Staffy (for example) displaying a similar level of aggression, will, in all likelihood, leave the person dead or maimed.

 

These dogs are bred to fight- over many generations of careful breeding, their teeth, jaws, musculature and attitude have beem moulded into those characteristics which make them excell at the task of ripping other animals into submission.

 

We all know that other breeds (e.g. little terriors) are just as likely to be ill-trained/prone to aggression- but, the key point is that if they attack a child, it will probably come out with some degree of bite wounds and the accompanying emotional trauma: in contrast, if atacked by a fighting dog, the child can easily end up with no face, maimed, or dead.